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Lyft Takes over Ford GoBike

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Re: Lyft Takes over Ford GoBike

#121
post #81

I wonder why bike sharing is still a thing in business world. Hasn't this business venture been proved to be a fiasco in China, where user base is larger in magnitude, operation cost is residual and virtually no regulation friction, compared to the u.s.? Why do lyft, uber and others think it is viable(profitable) in the u.s.? Another thing beyond me is although the business model/development of this kind seems to be…

Was reading about some bike sharing startups in India raising millions of dollars (Altero ~$3.5M, Rapido $50M) and felt the exact same thing today morning.

Re: Lyft Takes over Ford GoBike

#122
post #81

I wonder why bike sharing is still a thing in business world. Hasn't this business venture been proved to be a fiasco in China, where user base is larger in magnitude, operation cost is residual and virtually no regulation friction, compared to the u.s.? Why do lyft, uber and others think it is viable(profitable) in the u.s.? Another thing beyond me is although the business model/development of this kind seems to be…

Stepping back a sec, there's "classic" bikeshare (docked, manual), then there's (docked, electric) and (dockless, electric). Each of these has different pros and cons, though I agree docked, manual bikes aren't great.

Dockless, electric is a game-changer. JUMP bikes hit 20MPH in a few seconds, take less effort than will get you sweaty (critical for meetings/commuting) and you can take the bike lane. Then the vast majority of the time you just hook it up to whatever chunk of metal is nearby and you're done. It's the fastest way between almost any 2 points in SF and often the most convenient too.

At $2 for 30min + $0.07/min it was an absolute steal. At $3 I may have to think harder but if it makes the economics work, I'm still in. I basically stopped using Uber and pay $5-7/day for all the electric biking I need. Could I buy one for a years' fees? Yep. But I don't want to deal with the hassle of owning.

Re: Lyft Takes over Ford GoBike

#123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm guessing the "young, educated, bourgeois" demographic is the early adopter of most new technologies. If you wrote off everything that was primarily used by that demographic in its early days, you'd have missed out on the personal computer, mobile phones, digital photography, and many other things that are widespread today.

> If you wrote off everything that was primarily used by that demographic in its early days, you'd have missed out on the personal computer, mobile phones, digital photography, and many other things that are widespread today. Not writing off! I'm in that demographic. But let's call a spade a spade. That being said, I think there's a substantial difference between PCs/cellphones/digital photography and bikesharing: th…

One issue with commuting using public transport to a large tech campus is traveling to meetings and lunch places during the day. You can walk 10-15 minutes or use the company shuttle, which takes +20 minutes to be in another building on time. If you came by car, you can drive 2-5 minutes and spend 1-5 minutes parking. With bike, it's 5 minutes door to door. Providing e-bikes for in-campus travel would do some reshaping, as it can reduce need for parking space and would allow for more efficient use of time.

Not as big as cellphones obviously. Still something.

People who travel to client sites in dense urban environments may have even more interesting numbers.

Re: Lyft Takes over Ford GoBike

#124
post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've used these bikes in San Francisco several times on visits, they are great for getting around the downtown area. Public transit is 2.50 per ride ($3 cash starting July 1st), so it's cheaper as long as you are in their service area. The one thing is you're limited to 30 minutes before surcharges apply. You used to only be able to purchase 1-day, 3-day, or 5-day passes, it was about the same price as long as you us…

I used to subscribe to mobike in Singapore but between poor redistribution and no maintenance whatsoever it quickly became a negative experience. Bike shares only work if they are dockless, well maintained and most importantly abundant throughout the whole service area at all times.

The docking is a bit of a constraint (need to know where they are and walk to/from the nearest ones), but they existed before the GPS-enabled IoT dockless bikes were developed. They also had some advantages such as not needing a data plan on your phone (sometimes recommended on the social-media notification addiction threads).

I used the SF bikes multiple times over several years, and I did run into empty docks once or twice. But usually bikes were available and usable. More than once I ran into the person who maintained and moved bikes. They had a trailer with 2-3 bikes pulled by an e-bike--I thought that was a really great idea (as opposed to a van that ran n gas and would block the bike lane during loading and unloading).

Re: Lyft Takes over Ford GoBike

#125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is pretty rich one of two billion dollar ride sharing tech companies who disrupted the corrupt taxi monopolies by illegally skirting regulations is now suing a city for damages over a contract they claim gives them a legal exclusivity to operate bike sharing. Same people who cried foul over the taxi token system and called it a monopoly...just goes to show what SV disruption is all about.

How did they "illegally skirt regulations"? Having read the california taxi and car-for-hire codes a few months before uber came into existance, I can tell you that in california, at least, lyft was breaking no laws. Uber, was, since it was called "ubercab" and you can't have "taxi" or "cab" in your corporate name without actually being a taxi or cab.

You can look up the number of civil and criminal violation for both uber and Lyft drivers by county throughout the country.

In Miami-Dade county Uber (drivers) for example racked up over $4M in fines between 2014-2016 for operating a ride for hire without being licensed, the way our statute works is the 1st charge is civil and 2nd is criminal. Lucy’s fines were less but still in the millions.

This is repeated in counties all over the country.

Nevertheless here is an article from six years ago showing California regulators fined a lift and shut them down for violating state law and lift had to retroactively work with regulators to remove the fines and continue operations. https://www.google.com/amp/s/techcrunch.com/2013/01/30/lyft-...

Re: Lyft Takes over Ford GoBike

#126
post #90
post #81

I wonder why bike sharing is still a thing in business world. Hasn't this business venture been proved to be a fiasco in China, where user base is larger in magnitude, operation cost is residual and virtually no regulation friction, compared to the u.s.? Why do lyft, uber and others think it is viable(profitable) in the u.s.? Another thing beyond me is although the business model/development of this kind seems to be…

I think bikeshare programs have been very successful in cities where they are monopolies and partially run by cities. My experiences with bikeshares in NYC, London, Hamburg, Berlin, and DC have all been great. The places where they have become nuisances are largely those that have been flooded with multiple competing (usually dockless) systems, because it turns out that you don't need a large capital investment to cr…

Just on this - Hamburg in particular has a system where it's free to use for up to 30m for subscribers to the service, which is super cheap.

I believe it's run by the local authority, and at such a level its easy to explain why it's much more likely to be economically viable. The state also has to deal with the externalities associated with other forms of transport (traffic, noise, pollution etc.), as well as the health consequences of its citizens. Additionally, it's not-dockless - which I think massively reduces the nuisance on everyone else.

Re: Lyft Takes over Ford GoBike

#127
post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My 0.02c as a Citi Bike (NYC's bikeshare) subscriber: I wouldn't be surprised if there's a modest profit to be made in bike sharing, at least in NYC. I know quite a few people with a yearly subscription (either personally or via their employer), and I would consider paying for one personally now that I've experienced their convenience. I don't know how much money Citi Bike/Motivate actually makes here, although AFAIK…

I don't have their unit economy data, but I'm still (stubbornly) skeptical of the profitability of bike sharing. One reason is the market depth, in the sense that most of the time it's just young, educated and often bourgeois people in metropolis, which is a tiny proportion of people, who ride bike for purposes other than recreational.

I think these services can be profitable without being fully mainstream. Even if only 5% of daily journeys within a city are made by shared bikes it's likely possible to optimize asset allocation (how many and where) and revenue model to eek out a profit. More importantly these services have positive externalities (reduced traffic and pollution, better health of riders) so we as a society should root for them.

Re: Lyft Takes over Ford GoBike

#128
post #81

I wonder why bike sharing is still a thing in business world. Hasn't this business venture been proved to be a fiasco in China, where user base is larger in magnitude, operation cost is residual and virtually no regulation friction, compared to the u.s.? Why do lyft, uber and others think it is viable(profitable) in the u.s.? Another thing beyond me is although the business model/development of this kind seems to be…

The money in this market is in subscriptions. Recurring revenue from just a small percentage of all possible users can pay for a lot of bikes and it's pretty reliable revenue as long as you don't alienate customers too much.

I've been a Mobike subscriber for a year now (in Berlin). The bikes are crap (i.e. cheap, in need of maintenance) but they are everywhere and I see it as saving on gym cost (hard work to ride one). But, if I need to get from A to B, I get one because I already payed for it. I probably payed them around 100 euros or so over the last year. I just renewed for 3 months for 24 euros. Every time I do this the price seems to change. This gets me unlimited 30 minute rides. After that they charge 1 euro per additional 30 minutes (tip, lock and unlock seems to work). I consider this good value. I don't have to worry about bike repairs, bike theft, or leaving my bike in a dodgy area. As soon as I lock it, it's not my problem.

I've done over 1200 km on mobikes in the last 12 months. Even in the winter when the weather is less nice, I still used them enough to make it worth the subscription.

The back of the envelope math is pretty interesting. If you have 10K users like me that's about 1M revenue. For a city like Berlin (4M inhabitants), you can probably do better. At 100 euro per bike, 1M buys you 10K bikes. I have no idea what these things cost per year but both the upfront investment to flood a city with bikes and setting up the support organization (maintenance mainly) are not that high. I'd say if they shoot for recurring revenue from around 20K users in a city like this, they ought to be very profitable. They have plenty of capacity to improve utilization as at this rate most bikes are not in use most of the time.

The main issues I've seen with competitors is that they think too small. Something like Mobike only makes sense if you can find one without effort. A lot of the failed startups in this space did not have enough bikes or too complex bikes (they break). Launching with a few hundred bikes is pointless. Everybody that did this in Berlin is gone (ofo, byke (with a y), lime, etc. Mobike did this right. They flooded the city with between 5K and 10K bikes. They are all over the place. I suspect the bulk price for these things is pretty OK. The main challenge is the growth strategy: they need recurring revenue.

I suspect Jump, which recently re-launched here, won't make it in Berlin because they don't do subscriptions, their operational zone is tiny, and they don't have enough bikes on the streets. The value proposition kind of sucks compared to Mobike.

Mobike looks like it might fail because their bikes are deteriorating and they seem to be in limbo now that their China based headquarters looks like they want to focus on just China. Apparently they are looking to sell off the European operations. I think it's an operation worth saving but it is going to take an investment to keep their existing user base and there's a bit of urgency because the experience is getting worse as the bikes get shittier.

The only way to mess this up is poor execution. There seems a lot of that in this business. But it's not an inherently bad business.

Re: Lyft Takes over Ford GoBike

#129
post #81

I wonder why bike sharing is still a thing in business world. Hasn't this business venture been proved to be a fiasco in China, where user base is larger in magnitude, operation cost is residual and virtually no regulation friction, compared to the u.s.? Why do lyft, uber and others think it is viable(profitable) in the u.s.? Another thing beyond me is although the business model/development of this kind seems to be…

There is already people who make money off of bike-sharing: https://www.northdata.de/nextbike+GmbH,+Leipzig/HRB+21178

Just not the big names

Re: Lyft Takes over Ford GoBike

#130
post #81

I wonder why bike sharing is still a thing in business world. Hasn't this business venture been proved to be a fiasco in China, where user base is larger in magnitude, operation cost is residual and virtually no regulation friction, compared to the u.s.? Why do lyft, uber and others think it is viable(profitable) in the u.s.? Another thing beyond me is although the business model/development of this kind seems to be…

There is already people who make money off of bike-sharing: https://www.northdata.de/nextbike+GmbH,+Leipzig/HRB+21178 Just not the big names

Nextbike have some very shady business practices. Don't ever have a negative balance with them. They won't tell you and will proceed to threaten you with legal action a year later. Happened to me over £3 (which later became £10 as they don't accept payments below £10).

They also don't comply with GDPR. After confirming several times they have completely deleted my account and any reference to my email, I still get marketing emails from them every now and again.

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