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Stripe Chargeback Protection

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Re: Stripe Chargeback Protection

#121

Post by quelltext »

jasonkester wrote: post #10

But this isn't the product I want. I don't want to ever fight chargebacks. Because my policy is to never take money from people who don't want to give it to me. I want to automatically refund every chargeback attempt without it affecting my ability to charge credit cards. One of my businesses targets consumers, who have this amazing ability to "forget to cancel" or to have "cancelled 3 months ago, but for some reason…

> I want to automatically refund every chargeback attempt without it affecting my ability to charge credit cards.

That is just not how chargebacks work, sorry. I do think there is merrit to urge issuers and card brands to change the chargeback behaviour or rules, i.e. to always give the merchant the opportunity to refund first. Essentially to make the retrievals or inquiries flow mandatory for all disputes. There you are given the opportunity to refund and respond before escalation.

Stripe and others cannot do much here except for lobbying.

Re: Stripe Chargeback Protection

#122

Post by londons_explore »

awinder wrote: post #52
wayoutthere wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unless you have an easily visible telephone support number, I’m issuing a chargeback. It simply takes less of my time and idgaf about your business model.

Regardless of the ethics of this approach (I don't even want to touch that part), continuously charging back has a number of ways that can ultimately hurt you: 1. If you run this scheme enough and your credit card company flags your account for excessive chargebacks, you could very well have that card shut down and take a credit hit along with it. 2. More and more companies implement against (effectively) data broker…

Regulations like the GDPR together with consumer outrage will prevent companies using risk scores for too many things that materially affect the customer.

Re: Stripe Chargeback Protection

#123

Post by ensignavenger »

jasonkester wrote: post #97
ensignavenger wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have no desire to yell at you, simply to cancel the account and request a refund. While sending an email is okay, it would be better if there was a link directly to a page to do so, just like unsubscribing from an email list. Regardless, I would recommend changing the wording from "yell" because that sounds hostile, and most people don't want the conflict.

One nice thing about running your own business is that you can develop your own "voice" throughout the copy on your site and in your communication with users. And that that voice need not be soulless nor corporate nor cleared by Legal. Plenty of people have taken me up on the offer for a refund, and none of them felt the need to "yell", so I think they got the correct vibe. All our site copy and mails have this same…

I understand wanting to have your own style. I am not opposed to the casual tone. You were complaining that some customers don't take you up on the offer, and instead contact their banks to request a charge back. I was suggesting that changing that one word (but not necessarily the casual tone) might make a difference in encouraging some of those people. But it is your business, you can try the suggestion or not, I apologize if my comment came across as pushy or anything like that.

Re: Stripe Chargeback Protection

#124

Post by oakesm9 »

HatchedLake721 wrote: post #98
hedora wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As an end user, how can I tell the modal dialog is actually my bank? It looks trivial for the vendor to man in the middle attack. I’d take my business elsewhere if presented with a UI from some random e-commerce site asking for extra personal information.

3D secure payments in Europe have been a standard for years - being presented with additional verification steps for online purchases. Attacker cannot know who you bank with. Plus, most of the time the confirmation screens are something like confirming 2nd/Xth characters of your password/date of birth.

I bank with Monzo and they send a push notification to my phone with an "Approve" button. No way to fake that.

Re: Stripe Chargeback Protection

#125

Post by kweks »

Filippoi wrote: post #96
eeke wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We can send you a webhook on every dispute being created ( https://stripe.com/docs/webhooks ) and you could use the API to either refund the underlying charge or accept the dispute (and refund the underlying charge). We can also give you access to receiving early fraud warnings from issuers (like Visa TC40s). These are notifications from the issuers that the customer is likely going to dispute a charge. If you're hap…

> We can send you a webhook on every dispute being created ( https://stripe.com/docs/webhooks ) and you could use the API to either refund the underlying charge or accept the dispute (and refund the underlying charge). Unfortunately, I don't think that's possible. On Stripe, attempting to refund an actually disputed charge results in an error / invalid request. https://stripe.com/docs/error-codes#charge-disputed It d…

Refunding a charge back is / can be a bad idea - you can refund, still lose the charge back, and pay for the chargeback. For a $100USD transaction you risk losing 230USD as opposed to 130USD if you refund. It's even written on the dispute page on stripe to avoid refunding charge backs

Re: Stripe Chargeback Protection

#126

Post by tonyedgecombe »

jasonkester wrote: post #23
tonyedgecombe wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But lots of people aren't comfortable asking for their money back. They are, however, plenty comfortable asking their bank to ask for their money back. I think you are being generous in your interpretation. I don't get many chargebacks but looking at the ones I've had there has been a lot of deceit and fraudulent behaviour.

Do you mean it's your customers who are being deceitful by charging back a service after they've used it (as mine do). Or do you mean that you have customers using stolen credit cards to pay for your service and that the chargebacks are happening when the card owner discovers as much? I haven't seen any evidence of that second case happening with my users (apart from one incident where card thieves discovered my "upd…

The first except they continue to use the software after they have done the chargeback.

Also expense fraud, the buyer purchases on their credit card, makes a claim with their employer then does a chargeback to get a refund.

I also get a lot of people buying a single license and using it on multiple computers but that's really a different issue.

Re: Stripe Chargeback Protection

#127

Post by crazygringo »

Genuine question: how can this make financial sense for Stripe?

If Stripe charges 0.4% for it... then presumably any business with chargebacks of 0.4% value will use it...

...so almost by definition the mean cost will be greater than what Stripe is charging, and Stripe will lose money.

Since Stripe is full of smart people... what am I missing here? How is this a viable product?

Re: Stripe Chargeback Protection

#128

Post by [deleted] »

HatchedLake721 wrote: post #98
hedora wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As an end user, how can I tell the modal dialog is actually my bank? It looks trivial for the vendor to man in the middle attack. I’d take my business elsewhere if presented with a UI from some random e-commerce site asking for extra personal information.

3D secure payments in Europe have been a standard for years - being presented with additional verification steps for online purchases. Attacker cannot know who you bank with. Plus, most of the time the confirmation screens are something like confirming 2nd/Xth characters of your password/date of birth.

[deleted]

Re: Stripe Chargeback Protection

#129

Post by amyjess »

scarface74 wrote: post #22
jasonkester wrote: post #10

But this isn't the product I want. I don't want to ever fight chargebacks. Because my policy is to never take money from people who don't want to give it to me. I want to automatically refund every chargeback attempt without it affecting my ability to charge credit cards. One of my businesses targets consumers, who have this amazing ability to "forget to cancel" or to have "cancelled 3 months ago, but for some reason…

Would you feel that way if you were selling physical goods or even services where you had to pay workers - like a lawn business? It sounds like you are selling a near zero marginal cost software business.

People who sell physical goods bake the cost of these losses into their pricing. In fact, any large business will have financial analysts whose sole job is to calculate exactly how much they'll need to inflate their prices to make up for losses due to fraud, theft, accidents, and the like. It's kind of like being your own insurer, except the customer pays your premiums.

Re: Stripe Chargeback Protection

#130

Post by [deleted] »

jasonkester wrote: post #10

But this isn't the product I want. I don't want to ever fight chargebacks. Because my policy is to never take money from people who don't want to give it to me. I want to automatically refund every chargeback attempt without it affecting my ability to charge credit cards. One of my businesses targets consumers, who have this amazing ability to "forget to cancel" or to have "cancelled 3 months ago, but for some reason…

[deleted]
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