Live data from Hacker News

Maine passes bill to prevent ISPs from selling browsing data without consent

techcrunch.com

121–130 of 233 posts

Re: Maine passes bill to prevent ISPs from selling browsing data without consent

#121

I couldn't find links to the actual bill anywhere so I tracked it down: http://legislature.maine.gov/LawMakerWeb/summary.asp?ID=2800... The summary: "This bill prohibits a provider of broadband Internet access service from using, disclosing, selling or permitting access to customer personal information unless the customer expressly consents to that use, disclosure, sale or access. The bill provides other exceptions u…

Can anyone comment about m the language being strong enough to block incentives for selling user data through fast lanes?

[deleted]

Re: Maine passes bill to prevent ISPs from selling browsing data without consent

#122
post #116

Note that this is only necessary because the 2018 Republican Congress voted to allow ISPs to sell user data. https://www.consumerreports.org/consumerist/house-votes-to-a...

You seem to be under the impression that this didn't happen before 2018.

This has been going on for a very very long time.

Re: Maine passes bill to prevent ISPs from selling browsing data without consent

#123

Why not just prevent them from collecting it in the first place?

A significant amount of the data is stuff that will normally be logged for diagnostics, billing, complying with legal requests etc, ie normal ISP business.

I don't think the commercial department gets access to the data collected under lawful intercept regulation.

Re: Maine passes bill to prevent ISPs from selling browsing data without consent

#124
post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Boy have I got a surprise for you. I was an engineer at a web analytics firm a decade ago and yes, ISPs have your web browsing data and are selling it left and right. Also apps, Cell phone companies, etc. Our company bought all that data. and when that wasn't enough, we created apps that collected even more. Every click and ajax request, etc.... timestamped. Yes, there are analysts sifting through your browsing data…

> ISPs have your web browsing data Since you worked in this area: What specific things do they track, and by what technical mechanism? DNS requests? (Do they capture those that don't go to their servers?) IP addresses? HTTP snooping? Full HTTP (non-TLS) MITM?

ISPs use a variety of techniques, such as deep packet inspection.

Many ISP support centers use commercial software [1] to display a detailed analysis of website usage whenever a customer calls in for support.

This includes the top websites visited, how much data was transferred for each site (yes, including those of a more salacious nature), the number and type of devices inside a home, nearby Wi-Fi networks, etc. [1]

This information can then be queried and used used for marketing purposes at the subscriber level (or to individuals within a dwelling).

[1] https://www.calix.com/content/calix/en/site-prod/library-htm...

[2] https://www.calix.com/compass/access-analyze.html

[3] https://www.calix.com/compass/consumer-connect-plus.html

Re: Maine passes bill to prevent ISPs from selling browsing data without consent

#125
post #116

Note that this is only necessary because the 2018 Republican Congress voted to allow ISPs to sell user data. https://www.consumerreports.org/consumerist/house-votes-to-a...

You seem to be under the impression that this didn't happen before 2018. This has been going on for a very very long time.

The FCC passed a regulation to stop the practice and Congress voted to overturn that regulation.

Re: Maine passes bill to prevent ISPs from selling browsing data without consent

#126
post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The true test is if the anonymized data can be filtered and cross-referenced in a way to still link back to people[0]. [0]: https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-privacy/anonymous-...

You can always de-anonymize data given enough resources so that argument seems bogus. Anonymous data: Red car observed on Dawn Road at 23:34 on May 31 2019. DUI predictor - likely sober. Speed - 53 mph. Can this information be de-anonymized? Sure can! Police: "The suspect fled 7-11 Around 23:30 and either went on Dawn Road or Lost Haven Road. Let's filter all red car observation events that happened that night betwee…

It would depend on what is included in the data and what other data is available for reference. You can have medical data that tracks all of the symptoms reported by a patient without prompt ("What brings you in?"), symptoms reported by a patient with prompt ("Can you describe the pain? Where is it located?"), and the diagnosis by the doctor. It tells you nothing about the patient nor the doctor, but it still provides useful information.

Re: Maine passes bill to prevent ISPs from selling browsing data without consent

#127
post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, I'm not saying that. It is possible, for instance, to collect individual data, tally up certain characteristics in the aggregate, then discard the individual data points and only keep the aggregate statistics. With certain narrow exceptions, though, no data about me personally should be collected without my explicit permission regardless.

> With certain narrow exceptions, though, no data about me personally should be collected without my explicit permission regardless. Well, I don't agree with that. I don't see any reason people should have a right to "own" information observed about them. I make observations all the time about other people. You can't force me to forget what I've observed. Computers make it easier to "remember" and process observation…

I suspect your objection may mostly fall into what I consider exceptions, such as things done in public spaces (although I don't think it's sustainable to assert that you give up all privacy rights in public spaces).

> at the root there is no difference between me observing stuff and writing it down and a computer observing stuff and writing it down.

If that computer isn't talking with other computers, I agree. I actually don't have much of a problem with individuals making individual observations of public behavior and writing them down or storing them in a computer.

My concern is more about the parameters around sharing that data (mostly because of the existence of databases and data mining). Further, I'm far more concerned about data collected about me on the internet than in the physical public square.

That said, I do and will continue to go out of my way to avoid as much surveillance as possible even in physical public spaces. For instance, any store using those surveillance devices intended to analyze my shopping behavior, moods, etc., in order to target ads at me is a store I won't be stepping into.

Re: Maine passes bill to prevent ISPs from selling browsing data without consent

#128

I couldn't find links to the actual bill anywhere so I tracked it down: http://legislature.maine.gov/LawMakerWeb/summary.asp?ID=2800... The summary: "This bill prohibits a provider of broadband Internet access service from using, disclosing, selling or permitting access to customer personal information unless the customer expressly consents to that use, disclosure, sale or access. The bill provides other exceptions u…

What kind of penalties could they face if they don't comply?

Re: Maine passes bill to prevent ISPs from selling browsing data without consent

#129
post #61

I can predict the "Dark Patterns" right now. Giant Accept button and 6pt font opt-out link.

There needs to be some law against dark patterns because nothing is enforceable anymore. I'm not sure what can be done but I know that the death of our society is due to people/companies that are using loop holes and all sorts of tricks to game the system and undermine basic trust. It used to be that these "tricks" were used only sparingly but as more and more bad actors engage in this type of behavior it only makes it more normalized, and even causing more people to resort to the same behavior in order to survive.

It's like bad drivers. If you have more and more people cutting cars exiting a freeway exit, people at the end will never make it off the freeway in a timely manner. Thus, people have to start being bad drivers themselves or else they will never get to their destination on time.

Post reply on HN