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The Case for Rooms

citylab.com

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Re: The Case for Rooms

#121

Post by ycombobreaker »

bunderbunder wrote: post #108
cdubzzz wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just a small aside re: kids being underfoot -- our little 1.5yo loves to spend time with us in the kitchen and always wants to be in on the action on the counter. This was problematic until we built him a little tower[0] to climb up and see/do things. We still have to be very aware of where we leave things on the counter, but he absolutely loves climbing up and down the thing and has mostly learned by now not to touc…

Ha. Wait and see - in another 6 months he'll be using it a stepping stone to climb up onto the counter and get into stuff that used to be out of reach.

Then over time they graduate to moving silverware (dishwasher to tray, tray to table), washing/drying fresh produce, pouring their own water, mixing ingredients, etc. It starts with curiosity and a step stool (or "tower").

Though, some kids are easier than others to redirect.

Re: The Case for Rooms

#122

Post by sudosteph »

I don't think that closed kitchens are going to be making a return any time soon. If anything, the "mess kitchen" trend the author described just seems to be a way for very wealthy people to keep their open concept while having a classier alternative to the classic garage-fridge setup for overflow.

As for all the concerns about noise making it hard to watch TV - on the rare occasions that it's a problem, I usually just turn captions on (which I usually keep on anyhow because I just find them helpful).

The one space I do wish was standard in more homes though is a small office or library space. I would gladly replace most dining spaces (I don't even own a table to eat at) with a little corner room with doors and shelving on the walls.

Re: The Case for Rooms

#123

Post by tropo »

ycombobreaker wrote: post #121
bunderbunder wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ha. Wait and see - in another 6 months he'll be using it a stepping stone to climb up onto the counter and get into stuff that used to be out of reach.

Then over time they graduate to moving silverware (dishwasher to tray, tray to table), washing/drying fresh produce, pouring their own water, mixing ingredients, etc. It starts with curiosity and a step stool (or "tower"). Though, some kids are easier than others to redirect.

They graduate to moving silverware (dishwasher to trash, table to electrical outlet), stabbing/squishing fresh produce, pouring everybody's water, mixing ingredients (rice in the milk jug), etc.

Oh, that feeling of taking a drink of something opaque, and feeling unexpected solid items in your mouth...

Re: The Case for Rooms

#124

Post by Nition »

batrat wrote: post #70
DubiousPusher wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I want to cook for an hour without being alone. Exactly my thoughts reading this. I would guess this author does not cook. Or has not done so in a closed isolating kitchen while family or friends chat happily just around a wall out of earshot.

> I would guess this author does not cook Exactly the opposite. People with open floor plans don't cook every day, otherwise their home will smell like a cheap restaurant, unless they got used to it. My parents have an open plan, i don't. My home smells fresh every day (except kitchen) despite cooking every day, their house, smells like food in every corner because the smell impregnates in every material(especially i…

Bit of a ridiculous statement to say no-one with an open kitchen cooks every day.

Re: The Case for Rooms

#125

Post by [deleted] »

radcon wrote: post #50
jpm_sd wrote: post #14

The historical context portion of the article is interesting and well written, but the critique of the open-concept layout at the end seemed rushed and unconvincing. Anyone here who lives in a modern open-concept house care to comment? I currently live with my wife, 3 children and 2 dogs in a 1200 square foot split level and we all dream of a big open-concept house some day... but apparently some people are getting t…

I grew up in a house that looks like the first picture in the article ("An open-concept house in Massachusetts in 2005"). To me it always felt more like a hotel than a home, and the way sound traveled was horrible. You couldn't watch TV or talk in the family room at any reasonable volume without disturbing whoever was trying to sleep. It also seemed like a ridiculous waste of space. Instead of those high ceilings we…

[deleted]

Re: The Case for Rooms

#126

Post by ninth_ant »

Cd00d wrote: post #18
joker3 wrote: post #9

It'll be fun to watch this one and see all the discussion about open plan offices from people who didn't read the article.

And the comments boil down to: "I have strong opinions but avoided what looked like an opportunity to become more informed".

Informed about what exactly? The TL;DR: of the article is "open house plans are bad because smells and noise travels throughout the floor" plus a whole lot of history and fluff.

If the article was about the history of floor plans and the origin of the open floor plan, sure that's a chance to be informed. But it nominally wasn't.

Re: The Case for Rooms

#127

Post by arthurofbabylon »

I’m all for rooms - separation of space is effective for deliberately altering one’s state of mind, after all.

However, the author’s argument was weak. Someone else or some other perspective really deserves to have written this piece.

Re: The Case for Rooms

#128

Post by mwcampbell »

dkarl wrote: post #117
alkonaut wrote: post #7

The open (Kitchen) floor plan to me represents the idea that cooking isn’t a chore separate from eating and socializing. I want to cook for an hour without being alone. Privacy in the kitchen would never be desireable. “Entertaining” doesn’t require guests. There is also a matter of space. A shared living/dining/cooking space can use a lot less space than three separate rooms. I couldn’t afford the separate solution…

I agree; an open kitchen caters to the pleasure of cooking alone, or at most with family and close friends you don't being less than elegant in front of, not the pressure of entertaining. I think there's an element of class-based bravado in many modern houses. Huge windows without curtains, open floor plans, these send a message that your life doesn't have any mess that you need to hide from the world. You can live e…

> two people not speaking to each other because they're each absorbed in their own thing is a bit gross

First, none of what follows is applicable for people who are absorbed in their own thing even though they're near each other because they can't afford separate rooms. In that case, you do what you have to do.

But if we choose to be in the same room together, shouldn't we interact with each other rather than being absorbed in our own things? Otherwise, why not go to our own rooms?

Mind you, I'm an introvert. And most of the time, I merely tolerate family gatherings, even though I choose to fly back home to spend time with my family. (I'm single and currently living in a tech hub, across the country from my family.) But I try to participate, at least a little. And I generally don't put my earbuds on until I've spent my time with the family and go back to being alone.

Re: The Case for Rooms

#129

Post by Aeolun »

DubiousPusher wrote: post #42
alkonaut wrote: post #7

The open (Kitchen) floor plan to me represents the idea that cooking isn’t a chore separate from eating and socializing. I want to cook for an hour without being alone. Privacy in the kitchen would never be desireable. “Entertaining” doesn’t require guests. There is also a matter of space. A shared living/dining/cooking space can use a lot less space than three separate rooms. I couldn’t afford the separate solution…

> I want to cook for an hour without being alone. Exactly my thoughts reading this. I would guess this author does not cook. Or has not done so in a closed isolating kitchen while family or friends chat happily just around a wall out of earshot.

I wonder if this is a cultural thing.

Because cooking has turned into something social somehow, people don’t want to be isolated in the kitchen any more.

But in the past, someone walking into the kitchen while you were cooking would probably have been akin to them walking in on you in the toilet (“What!? No, I don’t want them to see the dinner until it’s actually done!”).

Re: The Case for Rooms

#130

Post by tropo »

jerf wrote: post #41
oflannabhra wrote: post #22

I don't really see rooms making a full recovery from the current open floor plan trend. While I agree that there are some downsides to an open floor plan (sound, cleaning, etc), I would be surprised if the open floor plan does not have serious longevity. Specifically, the open kitchen, which seems to be where the open floor plan started. Attitudes towards meal preparation have had significant changes over the past fe…

"While I agree that there are some downsides to an open floor plan (sound, cleaning, etc)" Sound could be mitigated at least somewhat if these rooms weren't so often hardwood floors, windows, and drywall on every surface. I'll cop to being at least somewhat above average on sensitivity to such things, but while a big space will always have a certain big space-y sound to it, it doesn't have to be a booming echo where…

I'd really like to suppress the sound.

Doing that well is non-standard, and thus expensive. There are so many obvious fixes that introduce other problems. Textured surfaces like carpet and popcorn ceilings get filthy disgusting. Wooden walls and ceilings are a fire hazard.

I think white silicone rubber would be an excellent surface material. It won't burn, nothing eats it, it won't rot, it can be scrubbed with bleach or detergent, and it can have the right sort of softness for absorbing sound. It could work as floor tiles or wall panels, with a smooth exposed surface and a waffle-like backing to grant it some additional squishyness. For the ceiling it could even be like stalactites, perhaps 4" diameter and 20" length, to better absorb the sound.

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