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Julian Assange: Wikileaks co-founder jailed over bail breach

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Re: Julian Assange: Wikileaks co-founder jailed over bail breach

#121

Post by Tycho »

ChrisSD wrote: post #101
Tycho wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The case was ridiculous. The way they pursued it was ridiculous. The way Sweden pursued extradition was ridiculous. The only lens through which it makes any sense is when you realise it’s a ruse to limit or remove his freedom, because he crossed the US government.

Sweden followed all normal procedures for an extradition request within the EU. Both the UK high court and the appeals court ruled he should be extradited to answer for accusations of rape, sexual molestation and unlawful coercion. If he feared the US, why the heck did he flee from Sweden to the UK in the first place? The UK is notorious for its one sided extradition treaty with the US.

Yes what they did is totally 'normal' if you ignore the elephants in the room that Assange had a legitimate claim to asylum from US persecution (and that they refused to promise no extradition) and that the case was ridiculous in the first place. He stayed in Sweden for five weeks after the event and they let him leave after he failed to gain a work permit.

Here's some of the ridiculous things:

  * the women admit to sleeping with him consensually before and after the alleged offenses,
    also housing him in their homes and hanging out socially
  * the accusations were made after the alleged victims consulted with each other at the police station
  * the only actual formal accusation that one of the women is standing behind is that Assange tampered with a condom.
     How the heck is anyone supposed to investigate that?
  * the initial prosecutor looking at the case dismissed it, but it was mysteriously re-opened by another prosecutor
  * once he left the country they raised an Interpol alert for his arrest, as if he was a terrorist
  * for years they refused to question him at the embassy, even though it was an easy way to move the 'investigation' forward
  * now that they have a chance to prosecute him, of course they will not bother

Re: Julian Assange: Wikileaks co-founder jailed over bail breach

#122

Post by _petronius »

leereeves wrote: post #49
_petronius wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because Ecuador warned the US they would be kicking him out of the embassy, but did not warn Sweden. I don't think that is in doubt at all. The US does not need Sweden's involvement to extradite and try Assange. The rape charges are separate and irrelevant to the charges he faces in the US, and whether the UK would even grant his extradition to the US is not a sure thing. These two cases are unrelated, and the only r…

> Ecuador warned the US they would be kicking him out of the embassy, but did not warn Sweden Ecuador hardly needed to notify Sweden. It was international news. The Guardian article from five months ago that I linked was just one of many. "No one in the Swedish government reads international news" is not a credible explanation. I see two possible explanations: 1) Sweden doesn't place a high priority on prosecuting fa…

I don't think either of your "possible explanations" are borne out by the evidence, but then there are a dozen other explanations that are both more plausible, and whose truth-potential is not dependent on whether they make sense to you personally.

Re: Julian Assange: Wikileaks co-founder jailed over bail breach

#123

Post by fit2rule »

SketchySeaBeast wrote: post #119
fit2rule wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What has Wikileaks released that ended up being false? EDIT: Just because you don't like what they have released, doesn't mean it is factually incorrect. It is factually correct, based on real evidence, that the United States of America has committed war crimes for which it has not prosecuted the perpetrators. It is factually correct that America has been involved in the destruction of sovereign states all over the g…

You're telling me everything Wikileaks has ever produced has proven to be demonstrably true? Because I don't know how you'd prove many extraordinary claims false. It's hard to prove the negative.

Got an example of something that Wikileaks has released that ended up being 'false'? Because Wikileaks isn't in the business of releasing 'opinions' or 'speculation' - it releases data and material facts, for the general public to make its own conclusions.

Ask yourself this question: why is it so hard for you to consider that Wikileaks never lied to you? Who has convinced you that it is an organization that cannot be trusted?

Re: Julian Assange: Wikileaks co-founder jailed over bail breach

#124

Post by foldr »

droithomme wrote: post #110
foldr wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is not a quote from the article? It seems to be taken from Craig Murray's website. Murray is no expert on forensics. See for example his embarrassing analysis here: https://www.craigmurray.org.uk/archives/2018/09/the-impossib...

Presumably the staff of the two separate forensics teams that found no DNA on the split condom were quoted in the 100 page police report are qualified. They did find DNA in the other woman's condom, but that condom was not split and there was no claim by her of condom sabotage.

No, I mean, he's not qualified to interpret the findings. It's far from obvious that a negative DNA test result means "definitely didn't wear the condom". (And more broadly, such a test is only informative if you can be sure that no other condom was used, which you probably can't.)

Re: Julian Assange: Wikileaks co-founder jailed over bail breach

#125

Post by foldr »

guitarbill wrote: post #120
foldr wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Assange is not responsible for deliberately skipping bail? I'm somewhat shocked by the idea that people should be allowed to get away with breaking the law just because it would be expensive to catch them. I don't think many British people would agree with that attitude.

I imagine a few people a year skip bail, and I think it's fair to say most of them don't have a 16 million police operation thrown at them. People also seem to be happy to forget the UN has found he has been arbitrarily detained [0]. The judge could have factored that in, she did not, probably to save face in light of a ridiculous 16 million pound police operation and pandering to US relations. [0] https://www.ohchr.…

>I imagine a few people a year skip bail, and I think it's fair to say most of them don't have a 16 million police operation thrown at them.

So? It's only to be expected that more money will be spent on enforcing the law when it's being flagrantly violated in the public eye.

I think in reality you object to any attempt to hold Assange to account for skipping bail, and you'd be no happier if only, say, £10,000 had been spent in attempting to do so. If you don't object to the law being enforced, I don't think you can really object that "too much" money is being spent. It's up to the relevant authorities to figure out when enough is enough, financially speaking.

The UN finding was daft, as Assange was not detained at all, and hence obviously not arbitrarily detained. If you look into that in more detail, you'll find a dissenting view by one member of the relevant panel - presumably the only person with his or her head screwed on:

> The finding in Assange’s case is a surprising one. As a dissent by the working group’s Ukrainian member, Vladimir Tochilovsky, points out, there is a thin basis upon which to argue that Assange is detained in the Ecuadorean embassy. “Mr. Assange fled the bail in June 2012 and since then stays at the premises of the embassy using them as a safe haven to evade arrest,” Tochilovsky wrote. “Indeed, fugitives are often self-confined within the places where they evade arrest and detention.”

Re: Julian Assange: Wikileaks co-founder jailed over bail breach

#126

Post by DanBC »

Tycho wrote: post #98
ChrisSD wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What is your point then? Sweden were pursuing their original case until he became a fugitive. If he hadn't run, he would (most likely) have been extradited to Sweden, not the US.

The case was ridiculous. The way they pursued it was ridiculous. The way Sweden pursued extradition was ridiculous. The only lens through which it makes any sense is when you realise it’s a ruse to limit or remove his freedom, because he crossed the US government.

> The case was ridiculous.

So ridiculous he chose to hide in a broom cupboard for yearss rather than go to court for a trial.

Re: Julian Assange: Wikileaks co-founder jailed over bail breach

#127

Post by DanBC »

dleslie wrote: post #34

I suspect that the USA isn't keen to make him a martyr, and that key players recognize the minimal value in prosecuting him now. It will be interesting to see how they utilize this nearly year-long reprieve from Assange's political posturing.

He'll be oput in 6 months if he isn't an idiot. https://www.gov.uk/types-of-prison-sentence/determinate-pris...

Re: Julian Assange: Wikileaks co-founder jailed over bail breach

#128

Post by monocasa »

inflatableDodo wrote: post #106
monocasa wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Word, I didn't see that last year. So yes, even just refueling is something the MSPs demand action over. Not sure why that's worthy of "come on" like it invalidates my point.

>even just refueling is something the MSPs demand action over. Yep, Members of the Scottish Parliament have been pissed off. Scottish police were blocked from doing anything however. Westminster unfortunately rides roughshod over both of them and has been a supporter of the rendition flights, as noted in the article from The Times. >"The CIA has been accused of using Scottish airports to facilitate the transfer of te…

Yes, it's contentious and causes a huge deal everytime it hits the media, but ultimately they allow refueling.

They don't allow extraordinary rendition starting from the UK.

Re: Julian Assange: Wikileaks co-founder jailed over bail breach

#129

Post by duxup »

goodfight wrote: post #115
duxup wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not sure many folks would think of him as a martyr. A lot of the previous good will about leaking important documents seems to have been washed away by Wikileak's crafting things to form their own narratives.

Name one unbiased news source. We are in the age of information wars.

Crafting things to form their own narratives isn't bias, it is a choice.

Re: Julian Assange: Wikileaks co-founder jailed over bail breach

#130

Post by Tycho »

DanBC wrote: post #126
Tycho wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The case was ridiculous. The way they pursued it was ridiculous. The way Sweden pursued extradition was ridiculous. The only lens through which it makes any sense is when you realise it’s a ruse to limit or remove his freedom, because he crossed the US government.

> The case was ridiculous. So ridiculous he chose to hide in a broom cupboard for yearss rather than go to court for a trial.

He was hiding from extradition to the US. It's incredible that this is not obvious to you.
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