Live data from Hacker News

Why Good Developers Are Promoted into Unhappiness (2007)

robwalling.com

121–130 of 235 posts

Re: Why Good Developers Are Promoted into Unhappiness (2007)

#121
post #90
post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Funny how the uncomfortable truths get downvotes. Would like to see those counter examples people seemingly have.

Xerox. Arpa / Darpa. 3M. AT&T / Bell labs.

Google (maps, Borg, bigtsble, etc)

Amazon (AWS, FBA)

Apple (iPhone, iPad, iPod)

Re: Why Good Developers Are Promoted into Unhappiness (2007)

#122

I cannot relate to this article at all. It's the polar opposite of my experience. I've been desperately trying to get into a management position for years. I started programming at age 14 and am now approaching 30. I created projects using basically every major programming language, created and maintained a complex open source project which now has over 5K GitHub stars and several tens of thousands of weekly download…

In my experience, people are usually promoted into management when they demonstrate leadership. I see you talk about your technical ability a lot, but that is generally not the core competency of an engineering manager. I suggest working on those abilities. It is very much so one of those situations where doing the job will get you the title.

Re: Why Good Developers Are Promoted into Unhappiness (2007)

#123
post #22

I’ve been reviewing a lot of career path documents recently for different engineering orgs, and every one is fairly uniform in that you either progress into management, team leadership, or architecture (or some blend of the three). If not, you’ll stagnate at a pretty high level, but stagnate none the less. I’ve been noodling on this for a while, and I think maybe a fourth track at a lot of organizations should be spe…

A better fourth path is to transition to running your own business. You still get to write the code, and you remove the salary cap. People sweat about all the “Business Stuff” you have to do in addition, but I find it’s not really any more of your day than the normal boring admin stuff of being a rank and file developer. Certainly less than being a manager at a bigco. It also does away with ageism concerns.

this is what we do, we help our employees start their own businesses as the top of the career path. We will help them with marketing, HR, recruiting, finance, etc. Also they can run losses while getting started.

We havent had anyone get promoted to this level, but several are close.

Re: Why Good Developers Are Promoted into Unhappiness (2007)

#124

I actually enjoy management even when it means more administration at sacrifice to writing code. What I don't like is when I am mentoring a junior on best practices or techniques to increase their performance or the performance of their code and they get defensive to the point of becoming an insubordinate ass. I understand there is a lot of defensiveness in development, but in the corporate world I expect everyone to…

It sounds like you're not a very good manager, unfortunately. One of the most important things a manager does is understand how to communicate productively with each of their reports. If you have reports whom you believe cannot "follow simple instructions", your first response should be to re-evaluate the way that you provide guidance to that person, not to decide that they're "an insubordinate ass".

Re: Why Good Developers Are Promoted into Unhappiness (2007)

#125
post #22

I’ve been reviewing a lot of career path documents recently for different engineering orgs, and every one is fairly uniform in that you either progress into management, team leadership, or architecture (or some blend of the three). If not, you’ll stagnate at a pretty high level, but stagnate none the less. I’ve been noodling on this for a while, and I think maybe a fourth track at a lot of organizations should be spe…

A better fourth path is to transition to running your own business. You still get to write the code, and you remove the salary cap. People sweat about all the “Business Stuff” you have to do in addition, but I find it’s not really any more of your day than the normal boring admin stuff of being a rank and file developer. Certainly less than being a manager at a bigco. It also does away with ageism concerns.

So instead of going into management because you don’t like management and want to stay an individual contributor, you now become not only the manager of your own company, now you have to worry about marketing, finances, etc.

I go to bed every night not worrying about whether my company remains sustainable. If they don’t, as long as it is a microeconomic issue (company failed) and not a macroeconomic issue (economy is in the toilet), I reach out to my network and get another job relatively quickly.

The same amount of money appears in my account every other week whether I go on vacation, call in sick, etc.

And I’m 45. Ageism is way overblown if you keep your skills current with the market and your network strong.

Re: Why Good Developers Are Promoted into Unhappiness (2007)

#126

I cannot relate to this article at all. It's the polar opposite of my experience. I've been desperately trying to get into a management position for years. I started programming at age 14 and am now approaching 30. I created projects using basically every major programming language, created and maintained a complex open source project which now has over 5K GitHub stars and several tens of thousands of weekly download…

Interesting. I can relate to it 100%. This happened to me and I made my way back to programming exactly as described.

Re: Why Good Developers Are Promoted into Unhappiness (2007)

#127

I cannot relate to this article at all. It's the polar opposite of my experience. I've been desperately trying to get into a management position for years. I started programming at age 14 and am now approaching 30. I created projects using basically every major programming language, created and maintained a complex open source project which now has over 5K GitHub stars and several tens of thousands of weekly download…

Have you talked to your manager about this? If your company has a non-terrible leadership, they should be able to tell you what specific qualities they look for in management and what you need to improve.

Re: Why Good Developers Are Promoted into Unhappiness (2007)

#128
post #22

I’ve been reviewing a lot of career path documents recently for different engineering orgs, and every one is fairly uniform in that you either progress into management, team leadership, or architecture (or some blend of the three). If not, you’ll stagnate at a pretty high level, but stagnate none the less. I’ve been noodling on this for a while, and I think maybe a fourth track at a lot of organizations should be spe…

A better fourth path is to transition to running your own business. You still get to write the code, and you remove the salary cap. People sweat about all the “Business Stuff” you have to do in addition, but I find it’s not really any more of your day than the normal boring admin stuff of being a rank and file developer. Certainly less than being a manager at a bigco. It also does away with ageism concerns.

I don't think it is the "Business Stuff", though that can be troublesome. It is the hidden costs. You often have to be significantly more successful running your own business for the same "deal" to make sense, which is hard. Some people manage to find their own path, but that requires a lot of effort.

Re: Why Good Developers Are Promoted into Unhappiness (2007)

#129

I cannot relate to this article at all. It's the polar opposite of my experience. I've been desperately trying to get into a management position for years. I started programming at age 14 and am now approaching 30. I created projects using basically every major programming language, created and maintained a complex open source project which now has over 5K GitHub stars and several tens of thousands of weekly download…

It sounds like you're not quite used to the political game that comes with getting ahead in the corporate world. If that is the case, do you honestly believe you would be happy in management?

Re: Why Good Developers Are Promoted into Unhappiness (2007)

#130
post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Then what is the point? Are you just there to gather your paycheck? I mean, to an extend, yes. But you need to be able to excert some positive effect.

big companies do not innovate. (counter examples welcome!) unless you’re in a 1-20 person startup, your impact is -5% to +5% as a division. Essentially you’re stroking egos: yours or management’s. best to choose the latter and try your hand at changing the world in after-work projects.

As has been seen over the last two decades, small companies can’t “innovate at scale” when it comes to hardware. The logistics, supply chain management, etc. makes it almost impossible. Look no further than the smart phone market.

Well at least innovate and survive in the mass market.

Post reply on HN