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Tesla Live Stream – Autonomy Day [video]

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Re: Tesla Live Stream – Autonomy Day [video]

#121

Post by slg »

sairahul82 wrote: post #114

Karpathy's presentation is really good. Watch it later if you get some time. The key points are - Telsa is using fleet for learning (Fleet learning). This has 3 components, a. Trigger infrasture that collects the kind of data telsa is looking for training. The rational here is we don't need massive amounts of same kind of data but needs right kind of data for training neural networks correctly. b. Data Engine which l…

>Karpathy's presentation is really good. Watch it later if you get some time.

I would second this recommendation. He did a really good job not only explaining Tesla's approach, but also breaking down the concepts in an easy to understand way for laypeople. That is a rare skill to have especially among someone who is obviously so technically accomplished.

Re: Tesla Live Stream – Autonomy Day [video]

#122

Post by stefan_ »

grey-area wrote: post #115
stefan_ wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Don't kid yourself, the car has no bandwidth storage or performance to send back anything other than a few raw frames from disengage events or other rare triggers.

The presentation makes it clear your claim is entirely false, you should watch it.

No, it's spot on. It's entirely what I said: the car can only deliver a few raw frames, and only in response to particular triggers.

Notice the cherry-picked examples in the presentation. There is a whole class of problems the field cars can never help with, since they lack the dead-reckoning sensor setup and precise odometry a development car would have.

Re: Tesla Live Stream – Autonomy Day [video]

#123

Post by sytelus »

gonehome wrote: post #88

Interesting pieces: - First principles hardware design of focused self driving computer (many times better than any competing existing hardware). Already shipping in all newly produced cars. Currently working on next gen that will be 3x better to ship in a couple years. - Lidar is an unnecessary mistake that competitors are making that won't succeed (too expensive, need too many, unnecessary). - Real world fleet test…

> Lidar is an unnecessary mistake that competitors are making

This is very controversial and rest of the industry thinks exact opposite, many even claiming that Tesla is being irresponsible and even delusional in trying to do autonomy without lidar. The main points I have heard in favor of lidar are that computer vision is very flaky not only in suboptimal weather but even in good weather. Cameras are simply no where close to in performance in dynamic range, rapid adaptation, focusing etc as human eye. Imagine car going under the shaded road with rapid changes between bright light and shade. The likelihood that your depth estimation will get messed up is very high. Of course, night driving becomes highly questionable as well. In additional the long range depth estimation is very flaky with stereo vision right now and a topic of research for mono-vision. If you want to retreat to level-4 only and that too with conservative speed, weather etc then may be vision+radar more doable?

Re: Tesla Live Stream – Autonomy Day [video]

#124

Post by [deleted] »

salawat wrote: post #116
xedeon wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It was pointed out that All data is anonymized.

Bull. You can't say "You can query for anything!" and have it be anonymized. In fact, if you're taking a camera shot, that's the most broadband sensor imaginable, and no thanks, I don't trust any company with profit motive not to crumble and pop out a software update to selectively disable picture blurrers, or to not have a Boolean flag in your data scrubber. As a company, making that statement is just trying to slip…

[deleted]

Re: Tesla Live Stream – Autonomy Day [video]

#125

Post by Traster »

I'm sorry but I'm finding it really difficult to watch this and match up what the engineer is saying to what Elon Musk is saying.

For example, the engineer says the custom ASIC does 144 TOps for 2 chips vs the NVidia drive Xavier - does 21 TOps. Okay, well yeah I expect your custom ASIC does have a nice performance advantage over the equivalent GPU. at 3.5x advantage probably seems reasonable. Cue Elon Musk:

"At first seems improbable, how could it be that Tesla, who has never designed a chip before would design the best chip in the world but that is objectively what has occured. Not the best by a small margin, the best by a huge margin".

Mate, it's a dot product with some memory attached, and not a single detail your half hour deep dive has gone into suggests anything other than a bog standard ASIC.

"All the cars being produced right now have all the hardware necessary for full self-driving"

And this is where I'm totally lost. I want to believe! But he's lied so many times now. This man is sucking the credibility out of every engineer in the room. Don't repeat the same lie twice.

Re: Tesla Live Stream – Autonomy Day [video]

#126

Post by DeonPenny »

selectodude wrote: post #112
DeonPenny wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I keep saying this he knows what he doing. You can tell he knows what's happening. Which is rare for a CEO to know this level of detail.

Which might explain why he's a crummy CEO. If your job is to strategize for the entire company and you're busy learning the minutiae that you spend a lot of money for other people to worry about, maybe you need to consider using your time a little better. If you want to build neural nets, keep your stock, fire yourself and go build neural nets.

But then you have the major car company problem and the phone companies before steve jobs. You have people who don't know what's possible, don't know who are the best people to hire, and can guide a vision. if you know capacitive touch screens are possible no one has ever tried it makes it easier to implement. Same with google and how their CEO are all engineers. So pitching the CEO on AI project becomes easy

Re: Tesla Live Stream – Autonomy Day [video]

#127

Post by DeonPenny »

sairahul82 wrote: post #114

Karpathy's presentation is really good. Watch it later if you get some time. The key points are - Telsa is using fleet for learning (Fleet learning). This has 3 components, a. Trigger infrasture that collects the kind of data telsa is looking for training. The rational here is we don't need massive amounts of same kind of data but needs right kind of data for training neural networks correctly. b. Data Engine which l…

It was great including his explanation of how Tesla drives in snow and rain which is hard to understand how a car can do it.

Re: Tesla Live Stream – Autonomy Day [video]

#128

Post by DeonPenny »

dwighttk wrote: post #103
gonehome wrote: post #88

Interesting pieces: - First principles hardware design of focused self driving computer (many times better than any competing existing hardware). Already shipping in all newly produced cars. Currently working on next gen that will be 3x better to ship in a couple years. - Lidar is an unnecessary mistake that competitors are making that won't succeed (too expensive, need too many, unnecessary). - Real world fleet test…

"many times better than competitors" "next gen that will be 3x better to ship in a couple years" applying psudomathematical varnish to marketing-speak

The talk was extremely technical

Re: Tesla Live Stream – Autonomy Day [video]

#129

Post by gonehome »

sytelus wrote: post #123
gonehome wrote: post #88

Interesting pieces: - First principles hardware design of focused self driving computer (many times better than any competing existing hardware). Already shipping in all newly produced cars. Currently working on next gen that will be 3x better to ship in a couple years. - Lidar is an unnecessary mistake that competitors are making that won't succeed (too expensive, need too many, unnecessary). - Real world fleet test…

> Lidar is an unnecessary mistake that competitors are making This is very controversial and rest of the industry thinks exact opposite, many even claiming that Tesla is being irresponsible and even delusional in trying to do autonomy without lidar. The main points I have heard in favor of lidar are that computer vision is very flaky not only in suboptimal weather but even in good weather. Cameras are simply no where…

They pair it with a forward facing radar which is inexpensive and good at depth perception.

Elon predicts all competitors will eventually drop lidar. He mentions it's expensive, but also not as good in a lot of cases (and all roads/signs are designed for vision).

He argues that getting vision to work is a prerequisite for getting self-driving to work and once you have it working, lidar is worthless (and unnecessary).

Re: Tesla Live Stream – Autonomy Day [video]

#130

Post by jvolkman »

grey-area wrote: post #115
stefan_ wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Don't kid yourself, the car has no bandwidth storage or performance to send back anything other than a few raw frames from disengage events or other rare triggers.

The presentation makes it clear your claim is entirely false, you should watch it.

Which presentation did you watch? Karpathy said specifically "it's not a massive amount of data, it's just very well picked data" when talking about how the cars only send data when one of the configured triggers fires.
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