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In Venezuela, life has gone from bad to worse. And the world has quit noticing

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121–130 of 148 posts

Re: In Venezuela, life has gone from bad to worse. And the world has quit noticing

#121

The world still notices. I've recently seen a number of articles about the protests and the opposition leader Juan Guaido. In fact the New York Times published an op-ed piece by him fairly recently.

citing the new york times :/ didnt they push for WMD in iraq? edit: ah yes, unquestioned reporting pushing the administration's policy of war. https://www.theguardian.com/media/2004/may/26/pressandpublis... isnt this what happened with collusion as well? oh yeah https://taibbi.substack.com/

The actual content of the Mueller report makes Taibbi’s post about it appear both premature and immature.

Re: In Venezuela, life has gone from bad to worse. And the world has quit noticing

#122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apples to oranges comparison, US citizens still have their freedoms. Some people are just irritated in the US because politics and because the deep state is losing its grip. Americans are not dying from starvation or being gunned down by the military for protesting the government.

There is no deep state. There is the rule of law, made by our representatives and questions are decided by courts. Regardless of one person's views, we make choices based on a legal basis.

If and when the FISA applications against Carter Page and others in the Trump campaign and transition team are declassified by a vengeful Trump, then we'll know whether the Obama administration weaponized the DOJ and FBI against their political opponents or not. After the declassification, let's discuss about whether there is a failing "deep state" or not.

Are you curious to know how many months into the 18-month Russian collusion investigation that Special Counsel Mueller knew the pee dossier, partly paid for by the HRC campaign, was an incontrovertible fake? Did Mueller know before or after the midterm elections? Whether you're curious or not, we're going to learn the truth soon. And that truth could be very painful, especially for deep state actors.

Re: In Venezuela, life has gone from bad to worse. And the world has quit noticing

#123
post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Probably true, but let's face it, there are few good actors in this story. The Venezuelan government is not remotely interested in the actual welfare of its citizens. The US foreign policy establishment is concerned as always only with Empire (the aid story is a lie: https://theintercept.com/2019/02/20/regime-change-we-can-bel... ). The nation itself is riven. Picking a 'side' here could not possibly be done in good…

I completely agree with you, with one exception. It's easy to see the absurdity of an armed population against a government with a military at its back. Of course the United States was founded by this very contradiction in intuition, but a more modern event is probably a better example. We destroyed Iraq without difficulty, yet never managed to control it. The full force of the US military backed by literally billion…

> Despotism and gun control are invariably tightly linked

"Linked" is a tabloid weasel word in this context. It may or may not be true that most despots favour gun control. I'm not familiar with the evidence in that case. But the reverse is not remotely true. Tight gun control has been hard fought for by citizenries of many democracies, and as with other rational policies (eg. real health care systems), once won, populations are loathe to allow corporate lobbies to remove it.

Armed citizenries have a measurably lesser chance of usefully opposing a government (and its military) than do unarmed ones (again, see Chenoweth and others). The post-revolutionary consequences of armed rebellions are invariably unending tales of multigenerational trauma and reciprocal violence.

Re: In Venezuela, life has gone from bad to worse. And the world has quit noticing

#124

[flagged]

I'm not a socialist. However, the claim that socialism necessiates a central gov is not universally accepted. Furthermore most socialists envision socialism as anarchism, as in self-governing workers' collectives, etc.

Re: In Venezuela, life has gone from bad to worse. And the world has quit noticing

#125
post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Probably true, but let's face it, there are few good actors in this story. The Venezuelan government is not remotely interested in the actual welfare of its citizens. The US foreign policy establishment is concerned as always only with Empire (the aid story is a lie: https://theintercept.com/2019/02/20/regime-change-we-can-bel... ). The nation itself is riven. Picking a 'side' here could not possibly be done in good…

I completely agree with you, with one exception. It's easy to see the absurdity of an armed population against a government with a military at its back. Of course the United States was founded by this very contradiction in intuition, but a more modern event is probably a better example. We destroyed Iraq without difficulty, yet never managed to control it. The full force of the US military backed by literally billion…

Wasn’t the Iraqi resistance funded by outside groups like Iran?

Re: In Venezuela, life has gone from bad to worse. And the world has quit noticing

#126
post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I completely agree with you, with one exception. It's easy to see the absurdity of an armed population against a government with a military at its back. Of course the United States was founded by this very contradiction in intuition, but a more modern event is probably a better example. We destroyed Iraq without difficulty, yet never managed to control it. The full force of the US military backed by literally billion…

> Despotism and gun control are invariably tightly linked "Linked" is a tabloid weasel word in this context. It may or may not be true that most despots favour gun control. I'm not familiar with the evidence in that case. But the reverse is not remotely true. Tight gun control has been hard fought for by citizenries of many democracies, and as with other rational policies (eg. real health care systems), once won, pop…

What is the point of discussion? I'd say it's presumably to convey our ideas and ideally influence one another. I mean we all think we're right about the things that we believe - or we wouldn't believe them. So why don't other people think the same way? Well they must just not be privy to the logic, evidence, and other information that you possess! And so of course the key tools in this are rationale, logic, and evidence. And so let's imagine I'm coming from a different perspective from yourself. Do you think your post is going to help me see your world view in any more clear a fashion?

For instance, I've never heard of Chenoweth. I'd assumed it was some significant revolutionary event I was not familiar with. Search results turn up an actress I've also never heard of. With some degree of effort, I surmise you are talking about some person who wrote some book. Why not share what you find to be the most compelling incident from the book? Major modern events every child is familiar with, from Vietnam to Iraq, demonstrate the power of an armed population. I'm sure your author must have covered this, so why not summarize their logic in practice, offer examples you found particularly compelling and representative, and ultimately perhaps persuade me to their merit?

Re: In Venezuela, life has gone from bad to worse. And the world has quit noticing

#127
post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Venezuelan government destroyed the economy. On top of that, the government is using military force to prevent foreign aid from entering the country. Sanctions make things a little bit worse, and they make Maduro's claims that outside forces are to blame for Venezuela's problems seem more convincing. (Sanctions have the same propaganda effect in North Korea). But in any case, it is pretty clear that the Venezuela…

The economy is predominantly private: it is the sanctions hurting the economy. I refuse to defend Maduro, but he is the peoples’ choice. Yes there are anti-Maduro rallies, but there are also pro-Maduro rallies the media conveniently ignores. Meanwhile, the idea that the US could help without putting someone right wing in place that happens to benefit the supply of fuel against the interests of the people of Venezuela…

Here's a different view: https://economics21.org/how-socialism-destroyed-venezuela

Re: In Venezuela, life has gone from bad to worse. And the world has quit noticing

#128
post #118
post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What are you trying to say? Things would be better if "the population" had guns?

I suspect Venezuela went from bad to worse, and it’s not yet hit rock bottom. If I were a citizen, I’d prefer to be armed.

If I were a citizen, I would also prefer to be armed. I am a good guy, and know what is right and what is wrong.

Unlike my idiot Maduro-supporting neighbour with his stupid, socialist ideas - and violent tendencies! I would prefer him to be un-armed.

Re: In Venezuela, life has gone from bad to worse. And the world has quit noticing

#129
post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Even if it is, which I doubt, that is like the least important thing that I listed.

Probably true, but let's face it, there are few good actors in this story. The Venezuelan government is not remotely interested in the actual welfare of its citizens. The US foreign policy establishment is concerned as always only with Empire (the aid story is a lie: https://theintercept.com/2019/02/20/regime-change-we-can-bel... ). The nation itself is riven. Picking a 'side' here could not possibly be done in good…

I pick the side of the Venezuelan people over the US empire. I, as a US citizen, am horrified to watch an oil war play out in real time. Similar to how the US uses siege warfare(a war crime) in Yemen, we are using sanctions against Venezuela to install our dictator of choice. The people of Venezuela decided their leader in free and fair elections. We need to leave them be.

Re: In Venezuela, life has gone from bad to worse. And the world has quit noticing

#130
post #63

The baffling thing about this is the vast oil wealth the country controls. Its oil reserves are the largest in the word, yet its economy lies in shambles. That takes some serious mismanagement.

The economy of Venezuela lies in shambles due to US intervention and sanctions. Venezuela has very limited access to the world market.
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