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Ex-Mozilla CTO: I was grilled for three hours at US airport by border cops

theregister.co.uk

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Re: Ex-Mozilla CTO: I was grilled for three hours at US airport by border cops

#121
post #14

Quick reminder: US citizens have an absolute right to reenter the country. Customs can temporarily detain you, but they cannot refuse entry. Any threat, whether implied or stated, that they will hold you until you unlock your device is not real. They can hold your stuff indefinitely, so be prepared to lose it if you go this route, but never unlock your device based on the idea that it’s the only way to go free. Non-c…

Quick reminder: Non US citizens only go to conferences outside the US. There is no excuse we should put up with this. Canada and EU are much better locations for this reason alone.

[flagged]

Re: Ex-Mozilla CTO: I was grilled for three hours at US airport by border cops

#122
post #14

Quick reminder: US citizens have an absolute right to reenter the country. Customs can temporarily detain you, but they cannot refuse entry. Any threat, whether implied or stated, that they will hold you until you unlock your device is not real. They can hold your stuff indefinitely, so be prepared to lose it if you go this route, but never unlock your device based on the idea that it’s the only way to go free. Non-c…

Isn't the device lock easily defeatable on the computer? Hold shift or some other key combination when you boot and it boots into the 'real' machine, the other OS is just a dummy with generic search history and data.

I would advise against this. It might work but there’s no guarantee, and by lying to customs you’ve transformed your situation from one where you might have to buy a new computer to one where you might be convicted of a crime.

Re: Ex-Mozilla CTO: I was grilled for three hours at US airport by border cops

#123
post #14

Quick reminder: US citizens have an absolute right to reenter the country. Customs can temporarily detain you, but they cannot refuse entry. Any threat, whether implied or stated, that they will hold you until you unlock your device is not real. They can hold your stuff indefinitely, so be prepared to lose it if you go this route, but never unlock your device based on the idea that it’s the only way to go free. Non-c…

> They can hold your stuff indefinitely, so be prepared to lose it if you go this route CBP do need reasonable suspicion to hold you belongings or do a forensic search of your computer (Cotterman 2013) - they can't just randomly take things on a whim. The longer they hold it, the higher standard required.

I strongly suspect that CBP's "strong suspicion" is equivalent to a HN poster's "whim." I'm not insulting either party, however when anything similar to this debate plays out, parties talk past each other on this sort of disagreement.

Re: Ex-Mozilla CTO: I was grilled for three hours at US airport by border cops

#124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Quick reminder: Non US citizens only go to conferences outside the US. There is no excuse we should put up with this. Canada and EU are much better locations for this reason alone.

Not much better in Canada: https://nationalpost.com/news/canada/guilty-plea-ends-case-t...

And also Australia and the UK:

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-10-08/if-a-border-agent-dem...

https://techcrunch.com/2017/09/25/traveler-who-refused-to-gi...

It seems to be mostly a Five Eyes thing.

Re: Ex-Mozilla CTO: I was grilled for three hours at US airport by border cops

#126
post #14

Quick reminder: US citizens have an absolute right to reenter the country. Customs can temporarily detain you, but they cannot refuse entry. Any threat, whether implied or stated, that they will hold you until you unlock your device is not real. They can hold your stuff indefinitely, so be prepared to lose it if you go this route, but never unlock your device based on the idea that it’s the only way to go free. Non-c…

> US citizens have an absolute right to reenter the country Going to a prison somewhere in the US is 'reentry' I suppose.

Sure, but without a criminal charge there's the right of habeas corpus. (Provided you have someone who will get the legal process started for you, I guess.)

Re: Ex-Mozilla CTO: I was grilled for three hours at US airport by border cops

#127
post #103

If another country were plan well, they could create opportunities that would attract and welcome the smart people from the US and elsewhere. If they made it economically attractive to tech businesses, they could set themselves up as a dominant leader of the world within 20-30 years, regardless of their current size. I don't know enough about Estonia to suggest they would try this, but they do seem progressive in thi…

That's not actually realistic, for the exact same reason why China is such a juggernaut in tech while having almost no human rights. If it worked the way you're implying, China wouldn't be able to do what it's doing in tech at all.

Things like this don't even remotely threaten US dominance in tech, because: 1) the US allows a lot of legal immigration; 2) US tech wages are far beyond anything you can make in those other locations 3) the US as a singular integrated market that is the world's largest economy, makes it impossible to compete with unless you're China, due to inherent scaling benefits 4) nowhere other than China has the capital markets to support competing with the US start-up scene properly and 5) the actual context - Andreas was let go after three hours, with his devices - isn't close to being bad enough to matter, in fact it barely registers these days (increasingly the era of domestic surveillence and censorship all around the world, from the UK to South Korea) as a very mild inconvenience on human rights, and doesn't impact ~99.999% of travelers to the US.

US dominance in tech - outside of China - has only increased since 9/11, not decreased. That's despite non-stop issues of this sort, the Patriot Act, NSA spying, and so on. A rogue border search, or a hundred of them, won't dent that. That's the reality.

Re: Ex-Mozilla CTO: I was grilled for three hours at US airport by border cops

#128
I was once randomly selected for screening at Chicago Midway, that quickly became shockingly specific: "Do you know that professor at DePaul that teaches Python?" "Do you mean Massimo Di Pierro?" "Yeah, I think that was his name." "I've met him a few times..." At this point it all seems very surreal. "He was through here a few weeks ago and had stickers on his laptop that were like yours." Ooooh...

Re: Ex-Mozilla CTO: I was grilled for three hours at US airport by border cops

#129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Also, don't fly through the US to get to that conference in Canada.

Is it a risk if you stay in the airport, in the secure zone? (Whatever it's called...I've flown rarely over the past couple of decades.)

Yes, on a flight to and from New Zealand with a refuel/crew change in LA I was fingerprinted, retina scanned and asked about my personal business despite being held in the "secure" zone.

This was 2005 so they didn't have such a hard-on for electronic devices back then. Seeing as the US has upped its game quite a bit since then, the likelihood of me ever visiting the US is now zero. Sorry my fellow US HN'rs.

And you know it's such a shame because I had a trip to Boston in November 2002, and even with it being only just over a year since 9/11, my passage through customs was friction-less and the staff were delighted that we'd come to visit the US. No fingerprints, no eyeball scanning, no interrogation, just a friendly "business or pleasure, and enjoy your stay".

Re: Ex-Mozilla CTO: I was grilled for three hours at US airport by border cops

#130
> Gal said the agents did take away his Global Entry pass, which allows express entry through customs, as punishment for not complying with their demands.

I wonder about the legality of the CBP punitively confiscating his Global Entry pass.

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