Sweden Wants to Revive Europe’s Overnight Trains • Hacker News Board

Re: Sweden Wants to Revive Europe’s Overnight Trains

#121

Post by vram22 » Tue, Apr 02, 2019, 10:19 PM UTC

detaro wrote: post #115

vram22 wrote: post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>(this train goes on the ferry) Wow, how does a train go on a ferry? A full, long train with many cars? Then the ferry would have to be that long too, which seems unlikely. Or is it that one or a few cars of the train go on each trip of the ferry, and the cars are all connected back together when back on land?

The Denmark-Germany ferries on that route are ~150 m long, and fit a train of up to 100 m length (or something in that ballpark). https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Datei:2017-08-22-ICE_TD_Puttga... Larger ferries on other routes have multiple rails next to each other, and long trains are split up across those.

>The Denmark-Germany ferries on that route are ~150 m long, and fit a train of up to 100 m length (or something in that ballpark).

Whew!

>https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Datei:2017-08-22-ICE_TD_Puttga....

High-tech.

>Larger ferries on other routes have multiple rails next to each other, and long trains are split up across those.

Great idea.

Re: Sweden Wants to Revive Europe’s Overnight Trains

#122

Post by PaulHoule » Tue, Apr 02, 2019, 10:23 PM UTC

avolcano wrote: post #12

Excited about this idea. I wanted to do an overnight train in a Europe trip I did last year, but the timing and quality never quite worked out. A lot of the time, trains between cities in western Europe are annoyingly long for a day trip, but slightly _too short_ for overnight trips - almost like an NYC->London red-eye, where you arrive just after you fall asleep. The couple of overnight trains I saw that seemed like…

I spent a year in Germany circa 1999 and then overnight trains were all the rage. For instance, Dresden to Amsterdam was an easy and inexpensive trip. Going east you could get to Budapest, going south to Innsbruck, etc.

At that point an American in Europe would ride the train as much as he could, but the Europeans I knew thought taking a plane was cooler and it was a good experience because the plane had competition from the train.

Re: Sweden Wants to Revive Europe’s Overnight Trains

#123

Post by gpvos » Tue, Apr 02, 2019, 10:25 PM UTC

niftich wrote: post #50

Sleeper trains are doing fine in Central and Eastern Europe, despite having to contend with some long running times. Sweden is trying to revive them through Denmark, which hasn't hosted night trains since 2014 [1]. There's two viable, existing routes for trains between the Central Sweden and Northern Germany. One's through the Fehmarn Belt rail ferry, and another is the long way through Jutland. Both ways take a long…

There's also the Malmö-Berlin night train that takes the ferry between Trelleborg and Sassnitz. It doesn't go all year though.

Re: Sweden Wants to Revive Europe’s Overnight Trains

#124

Post by gpvos » Tue, Apr 02, 2019, 10:29 PM UTC

rory wrote: post #85

niftich wrote: post #50

Sleeper trains are doing fine in Central and Eastern Europe, despite having to contend with some long running times. Sweden is trying to revive them through Denmark, which hasn't hosted night trains since 2014 [1]. There's two viable, existing routes for trains between the Central Sweden and Northern Germany. One's through the Fehmarn Belt rail ferry, and another is the long way through Jutland. Both ways take a long…

Re: Central and Eastern Europe, I took an overnight (sort of, 5AM to 5PM) sleeper train from Lviv to Budapest a couple years ago. It was quite pleasant and they managed the journey in a way I never would have expected. Instead of passenger layovers and shuffling between trains at subsequent stations, they just designated a whole car bound for Budapest and then detached & reattached it to different trains along the wa…

They're called though coaches (Kurswagen in German) and used to be quite common. In fact, quite a few night trains are split and recombined during the night, but usually in chunks of three or four cars.

Re: Sweden Wants to Revive Europe’s Overnight Trains

#125

Post by SOLAR_FIELDS » Tue, Apr 02, 2019, 10:30 PM UTC

Symbiote wrote: post #43

avolcano wrote: post #12

Excited about this idea. I wanted to do an overnight train in a Europe trip I did last year, but the timing and quality never quite worked out. A lot of the time, trains between cities in western Europe are annoyingly long for a day trip, but slightly _too short_ for overnight trips - almost like an NYC->London red-eye, where you arrive just after you fall asleep. The couple of overnight trains I saw that seemed like…

You write "_ferry_" like it's something weird, but it's a completely normal transport option for a huge number of Europeans -- usually for longer journeys, but sometimes to cover a short distance in 20-30 minutes. There are many ferry connections across the Irish, North, Baltic and Mediterranean seas. Ignoring the price, I'd choose an overnight ferry over an overnight train. The worst room on a ferry is probably as l…

I took DFDS overnight from Sweden to Lithuania last summer and found it quite enjoyable. The tickets, including transport for your car, are reasonably priced (about the same price as plane tickets), we got to take the dog in the room with us and had a private shower. There's also a nice community of people to chat with out on deck during the night, everyone else is stuck on the ferry with you so you can have nice little parties.

Cell signals (at least in the Baltic) apparently travel super far over the water so you also get cell service for a freakishly longer time than you would expect. I think we had ours for about 3-4 hours after we left and 3-4 hours before we arrived back at shore.

Food was not great by any means, but edible.

The other kind of hilariously infuriating thing is that they wake you up at 7 am with an incredibly loud announcement that they are serving breakfast with an intercom piped directly into your room. And you can't turn it off. Was more funny than anything, though I can imagine that if it was a multiple-day endeavor that I could learn to hate it pretty quickly.

Re: Sweden Wants to Revive Europe’s Overnight Trains

#126

Post by fit2rule » Tue, Apr 02, 2019, 10:33 PM UTC

rory wrote: post #85

niftich wrote: post #50

Sleeper trains are doing fine in Central and Eastern Europe, despite having to contend with some long running times. Sweden is trying to revive them through Denmark, which hasn't hosted night trains since 2014 [1]. There's two viable, existing routes for trains between the Central Sweden and Northern Germany. One's through the Fehmarn Belt rail ferry, and another is the long way through Jutland. Both ways take a long…

Re: Central and Eastern Europe, I took an overnight (sort of, 5AM to 5PM) sleeper train from Lviv to Budapest a couple years ago. It was quite pleasant and they managed the journey in a way I never would have expected. Instead of passenger layovers and shuffling between trains at subsequent stations, they just designated a whole car bound for Budapest and then detached & reattached it to different trains along the wa…

One of my most pleasant travel snooze memories is waking up in a very comfortable bunk bed, looking out the window to the morning sun rising over the Danube, a castle and some vineyards and fruit gardens rolling off into the distance, slowly coming to a two hour halt and having a mountain valley full of green life splayed out for the breakfast picture.

Re: Sweden Wants to Revive Europe’s Overnight Trains

#127

Post by belorn » Tue, Apr 02, 2019, 10:40 PM UTC

Symbiote wrote: post #43

avolcano wrote: post #12

Excited about this idea. I wanted to do an overnight train in a Europe trip I did last year, but the timing and quality never quite worked out. A lot of the time, trains between cities in western Europe are annoyingly long for a day trip, but slightly _too short_ for overnight trips - almost like an NYC->London red-eye, where you arrive just after you fall asleep. The couple of overnight trains I saw that seemed like…

You write "_ferry_" like it's something weird, but it's a completely normal transport option for a huge number of Europeans -- usually for longer journeys, but sometimes to cover a short distance in 20-30 minutes. There are many ferry connections across the Irish, North, Baltic and Mediterranean seas. Ignoring the price, I'd choose an overnight ferry over an overnight train. The worst room on a ferry is probably as l…

I have been on a few overnight trains here in Sweden and they have all been quite old, noisy and shaky ones. This initiative might give enough incentives for companies to invest in better overnight trains, but so far what we are being promised are more lines rather than better experience.

In contrast, overnight ferry has been mostly a delight. The room are smaller than hotel but much better than train, they don't shake (and I only appreciate a gently rocking movement of the ocean), and unless you buy the cheapest tickets you tend to get a mostly quiet night (the ac can be a bit loud through). The only drawbacks is that it is much slower than air travel, and the food prices in the restaurants are about as atrocious as those on planes and trains.

Sadly ferries is basically limited to traveling over the Baltic sea and Norway. I would very much like the option to travel to other costal nations in EU, even if it would take a day or two, but there simply isn't any lines.

Re: Sweden Wants to Revive Europe’s Overnight Trains

#128

Post by winterswift » Tue, Apr 02, 2019, 10:44 PM UTC

calyth2018 wrote: post #25

z2 wrote: post #2

Overnight trains are wonderful for traveling and saving a night's hotel. I used to take sleeper cars in China for distances that made sense (e.g. board at 9pm, arrive 7am). Some with shorter distances even optimized on sleep so that the train would stop for an hour outside the final station and arrive at a reasonable time in the morning. Unfortunately and similar with Europe, high speed rail has ended many of these s…

That's what I did when I went around northern Europe. Took the Stockholm to Malmo, and then switch to Copenhagen. Unfortunately, I don't think there was sleeper cars. That train departed late evening, got us there in the daytime. I figured if I'm paying to sleep, I might as well be moving. I only wish that there was bunks on that train.

There are sleeper compartments on the SJ Night trains – I took one to Malmö, but they also run to the north and across to Göteborg.

https://www.sj.se/en/about/about-sj/our-trains/sj-night-trai...

Re: Sweden Wants to Revive Europe’s Overnight Trains

#129

Post by alexanderchr » Tue, Apr 02, 2019, 10:46 PM UTC

calyth2018 wrote: post #25

z2 wrote: post #2

Overnight trains are wonderful for traveling and saving a night's hotel. I used to take sleeper cars in China for distances that made sense (e.g. board at 9pm, arrive 7am). Some with shorter distances even optimized on sleep so that the train would stop for an hour outside the final station and arrive at a reasonable time in the morning. Unfortunately and similar with Europe, high speed rail has ended many of these s…

That's what I did when I went around northern Europe. Took the Stockholm to Malmo, and then switch to Copenhagen. Unfortunately, I don't think there was sleeper cars. That train departed late evening, got us there in the daytime. I figured if I'm paying to sleep, I might as well be moving. I only wish that there was bunks on that train.

That Stockholm-Malmö night train is actually all sleepers except for one or two seating carriages. They tried to discontinue running it a few years ago but it’s becoming really popular so they might have just been sold out that night.

Re: Sweden Wants to Revive Europe’s Overnight Trains

#130

Post by gpvos » Tue, Apr 02, 2019, 10:46 PM UTC

fabioborellini wrote: post #113

kliao wrote: post #4

Good in theory, but implementation was poor the one time I tried it. The 6-person sleeper car is extremely cramped (2 triple bunks), and with the passport checks at border crossings, it's difficult to get a good night's sleep. Personal safety and luggage theft was a concern as well. I canceled my return trip and booked a low cost flight instead. Maybe the extra funding will improve train conditions and process.

Someone else replied already along the lines of "you get what you pay for", but I found some web pages with pictures: - The 4 or 6 person compartments (couchettes) are quite cramped indeed, but the good part is they only cost 10 or 20 euros extra compared to a plain seat. https://www.vagonweb.cz/fotogalerie/SK/WSBA_Bvcmbz.php - The actual sleeper wagons with 1 to 3-berth compartments cost more, with their prices arou…

Most CNL trains were still well-filled when they were suddenly cancelled. It was just that DB didn't want to invest in them anymore (the carriages were 30-40 years old and needed to be replaced), they wanted people to take fancy high-speed trains instead. Also, some countries levied high track access charges. Blaming only cheap airfares is not entirely fair. ÖBB took over some CNL routes and marketed them a lot better, and has made profits on them.