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I’m only making business card sized games now

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Re: I’m only making business card sized games now

#121

Post by rizzin »

coldtea wrote: post #99
dymk wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Videogames have always had "money mixed in", profitable videogame studios are as old as videogames themselves, and your glasses are just rose tinted. I'm not even sure what kind of "old" game you're picturing that you think didn't have "money mixed in" - tetris? pong? goldeneye?

> I'm not even sure what kind of "old" game you're picturing that you think didn't have "money mixed in" - tetris? pong? goldeneye? How about an old adventure game, where you were expected to pay once, enjoy the story and quizzes, and complete in X time (no "dark patterns" etc)? And of which the creators were as passionate about the their creation and genre as you, as opposed to cynical 'let's make another addictive…

>And of which the creators were as passionate about the their creation and genre as you, as opposed to cynical 'let's make another addictive MMOG' or 'let's make another FarmVille' or 'let's make Angry Birds 335' studios?

This is how I feel too. All games are addictive and have psychological "feel good" hooks in them. However it feels like a lot of those scummy mobile games prioritize engineering addiction and exploiting those hooks over making a fun game. Add to that recent controversies about some games being considered gambling which, as an industry, shares this goal of making people addicted to the rush so that they spend more.

What pains me the most is that it works. People vote with wallets and support these developers.

Re: I’m only making business card sized games now

#122

Post by coldtea »

TeMPOraL wrote: post #111
vnorilo wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, but come up with equally good minimal mechanics like tetris or go. Once? You are a game design genius. Twice? Has anybody ever done that?

I don't think it's about mechanics. I still remember some of the games we played on cheap Russian handheld consoles back in the mid 90s. Tetris and snake, but also a racing game that had the same mechanics like Tiny Ski, except upside down and with the logical game board three blocks wide. I had a lot of fun with that racer; I can picture it in my mind more vividly than most of my adult memories. The three games I me…

>Were Tetris to come out today, people would look at it, think "what a boring, shallow game" and go back to Candy Crush or whatever is currently the hottest casual.

I don't think so. If anything Candy Crush has even less gameplay and is more boring and shallow than Tetris.

Re: I’m only making business card sized games now

#123

Post by rizzin »

chii wrote: post #28
apsdsm wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is particularly true of, say, many mobile games. But conversely, if not hours of enjoyment, then by what metric do we gauge a good game? Perhaps there’s a line here between hours of enjoyment and hours of mindless engagement?

May be the measure should be how harmful it is to continue? For an MMO, you're engaged socially (presumably in a guild, rather than soloing). In a mobile grind game, you spend hours constantly checking on progress for that endorphine hit.

Same as with any addictive thing, you can use and you can abuse. And the change isn't instant.

You can play MMO socially in a guild, or you can simply grind max levels / rare items endlessly.

You can play an IAP and ad-riddled mobile game to kill some time when waiting in queues, or you can have it become a part of your life checking the game everytime you have a minute of downtime.

And the transitions between those states happen impreceptibly, and there is no defined line beyond which you may consider the activity harmful.

Re: I’m only making business card sized games now

#124

Post by dkersten »

Cthulhu_ wrote: post #102
muzani wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To each their own. I don't like Overwatch or games like Fallout simply because of the 1500 hours. I like to complete a game within a month or so. Much longer and it feels like work (work is fun too and if I'm going to get good at something, it should at least pay the bills). My sweet spot would actually be games like Rimworld or Kittens. Something that you can find closure in about 20 hours of gameplay. I feel like g…

20 hours for Rimworld? I've spent nearly a hundred in there and never even got close to endgame. That is a sandbox game without an end - however, one with constant entertainment though. But I feel you about longer games starting to feel like work. I really want to like the Witcher 3 for example, but there's just so much content in there. I've started my playthrough two years ago and still haven't gotten to the end of…

Hah! I think I’ve spent about 500 hours in Rimworld and haven’t come close to the endgame. I’ve never gotten any of the spaceship parts or anything like that.

Re: I’m only making business card sized games now

#127

Post by Grue3 »

skellera wrote: post #44
meditate wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I personally reject "hours of enjoyment" as a metric for value and depth of a purchased game. It's good to hear that you've had positive experiences, but the dark side is that for many it drifts towards being an addictive time-suck that eats money for nothing in return.

When did this opinion start taking such a hold? Out of all places, I didn’t think HN would be so anti-games but I’ve been seeing more and more people saying this here. Could someone who feels this way expand on why they have such a negative view on games? Just curious if it’s personal, cultural, or something else? Also, is it directed at complex games with storylines, online multiplayer, or mobile games meant to pull…

I used to spend a lot of time on games, then I realised what a waste of time it is, when you can spend that time learning or creating stuff.

Re: I’m only making business card sized games now

#128

Post by rchaud »

TeMPOraL wrote: post #115
_slyo wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My grandfather believes that video games are a "scourge" for young men today. I used to think he was old-fashioned for believing this, but I have come around to agreeing with him. I wasted a large chunk of my life on Counterstrike, Arma 3, DayZ Mod, PUBG, and countless console games. _Thousands_ of hours in total. For me, games were more than an escape or simply a way to unwind. For me, they were a well-hidden addict…

> I wasted a large chunk of my life on Counterstrike, Arma 3, DayZ Mod, PUBG, and countless console games. _Thousands_ of hours in total. For me, games were more than an escape or simply a way to unwind. For me, they were a well-hidden addiction. They were an obstacle to reaching my potential. I can't see myself going back to games again and still being as happy as I am now. Substitute "football" or "drinking with fr…

There are numerous cases of gaming addiction out there, with the most extreme stories occurring in some cafes in China. Just because gaming has a high utility value for you doesn't mean others can't be affected negatively.

I have yet to see anyone seeking treatment because they read too many books or spend too much time with their friends.

Re: I’m only making business card sized games now

#129

Post by Tepix »

I like small games. They force an emphasis on game design.

How about restricting yourself to QR code sized games? The maximum size of a QR code is 2,953 bytes. You may want to use "H" error correction level instead which can recover 30% of errors.

Re: I’m only making business card sized games now

#130

Post by watwut »

skellera wrote: post #44
meditate wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I personally reject "hours of enjoyment" as a metric for value and depth of a purchased game. It's good to hear that you've had positive experiences, but the dark side is that for many it drifts towards being an addictive time-suck that eats money for nothing in return.

When did this opinion start taking such a hold? Out of all places, I didn’t think HN would be so anti-games but I’ve been seeing more and more people saying this here. Could someone who feels this way expand on why they have such a negative view on games? Just curious if it’s personal, cultural, or something else? Also, is it directed at complex games with storylines, online multiplayer, or mobile games meant to pull…

For me, it was close contact with addicted gamers and watching how their interactions with other people changed over time. Addicted gamer is not the same as gamer. I used to like games, going to through this and realizing that those games are specifically build to cause such affection and community specifically praises it made me unwilling to play again ever.

Even when I still played and did not yet seen addiction in practice up close yet, I realized that complex game with storylines and online multiplayer games are build for people who have the kind of free time that is incompatible with full time job, family and additional learning.

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