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Uber is dropping rates for drivers down from 80 cents/mile to 60 cents/mile

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Re: Uber is dropping rates for drivers down from 80 cents/mile to 60 cents/mile

#121

Post by School-Cotton »

Forge36 wrote: post #110
ars wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> A slave owner gives an otherwise hungry man food and housing. That doesn't mean slavery is at all justifiable. Slave by its very definition implies lack of choice by the other person. > Uber pays people who otherwise might not have a job at all. That doesn't mean paying them incredibly low wages is something that should be free of criticism. Yes, actually, it does mean that. That's the nature of choice . If someone…

I'm not following your logic, are you suggesting you wouldn't ask for a raise? There are a lot of moving pieces. The abolishment of slavery didn't end slavery and it's conditions. It changed the name and the rules. Many slaves became trapped in indentured servitude without enough pay to cover the cost of housing. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indentured_servitude Eventually this became illegal as well, another tact…

> given that service is insufficient to meet basic needs, improvements are needed

Sure, and why is it Uber's responsibility to make those improvements?

Re: Uber is dropping rates for drivers down from 80 cents/mile to 60 cents/mile

#122

Post by intopieces »

ars wrote: post #90
intopieces wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're assuming that the people taking the job are fully informed, rational actors, not acting under financial duress. This is not a reasonable assumption for a near-permanent economic underclass. Your rationale could be extended outward to every adverse outcome for poor: "Well, poor people have higher rates of obesity and cancer because of their poor life choices in eating fast food and smoking." It's a convenient o…

> You're assuming that the people taking the job are fully informed, rational actors, not acting under financial duress. This is not a reasonable assumption for a near-permanent economic underclass. Sorry-not-sorry, for assuming people are not idiots. Either they have money to pay bills or they don't. It's not that complicated, and people are not idiots. > "Well, poor people have higher rates of obesity and cancer be…

>Sorry-not-sorry, for assuming people are not idiots.

Being uninformed (because a system is complex) and/or acting irrationally (because of financing stress) are not aptly described as "idiocy," which is a value judgement about individuals, not a description of those individuals information.

>Either they have money to pay bills or they don't. It's not that complicated.

The long term financial heath of individuals and families is complicated. Complicated by information asymmetry, financial uncertainly, and unscrupulous lenders who sell short-term solutions (like lending you money to buy a car that you have to drive to earn enough money to pay for the car -- and then dropping the rate at which you can earn to pay off the car). Usury laws exist, for example, not because people are "stupid," but because well-heeled companies can and do financially exploit people in bad positions.

Basically, driving for Uber is a bad idea and almost always not worth it financially for the drivers. And yet people do it. Not because they are idiots, but because start-ups have been able to skirt hard-won labor protections and safety laws to exploit a group of ad-hoc workers, whose time would be better spent collecting welfare checks and gaining marketable skills to land a full time position.

Re: Uber is dropping rates for drivers down from 80 cents/mile to 60 cents/mile

#123

Post by robertAngst »

adamqureshi wrote: post #118

My brother works for uber, He is 54 years old smokes a pack day and has had 2 heart attacks. He drives a Cadillac and pays $500-month for commercial insurance and has a monthly payment for his car. He has TLC plates to work in NYC ( fees apply) he makes about $300 a day works like a dog 12-14 hours a day. All of his friends are the same (uber drivers in NYC) Here you have the typical uber driver who does this for a l…

What is the thought on these types of people?

They are stupid/lazy, but its their genetics and they can't help it.

So what is it, that society should do with these people. Curious solutions.

Re: Uber is dropping rates for drivers down from 80 cents/mile to 60 cents/mile

#124

Post by Phlarp »

petschge wrote: post #75
School-Cotton wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

OK, let's be concrete -- how much should they pay them? Keep in mind that Uber currently operates at a loss.

The IRS deduction rate per mile plus minimum wage per hour. Anything below that is so low that it is immoral (and would be illegal in any civilized country).

It'd be illegal in this country if not for some very creative stepping around the issue on the part of the "gig economy". (Which may itself be illegal but it appears Uber has become to large for this to matter)

Re: Uber is dropping rates for drivers down from 80 cents/mile to 60 cents/mile

#125

Post by us0r »

Pxtl wrote: post #76

Sooner or later the us is going to have to sit down and have a long and hard conversation about this "independent contractor" nonsense.

Sure. Right after you ask any driver if they want to be told when to work, where to work and how to work.

Re: Uber is dropping rates for drivers down from 80 cents/mile to 60 cents/mile

#126

Post by robertAngst »

PopeDotNinja wrote: post #9

If I were Uber, or any ridesharing service, I'd be optimizing to pay driver's as much as possible. But that's just me.

And if I were them, I'd be paying for R&D on automation.

I think I will be right, long term.

Re: Uber is dropping rates for drivers down from 80 cents/mile to 60 cents/mile

#127

Post by intopieces »

School-Cotton wrote: post #14
fiblye wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A lot of people turn to jobs like Uber because they can't easily find a job. There are many people who desperately try for weeks or months to find employment. Companies like Uber love to prey on such people.

I don't really understand this argument. Uber didn't create the conditions causing these people not to be able to find better jobs. If Uber stopped "preying on" these people, would they be better off? It seems like they'd just be unemployed.

>would they be better off?

This is impossible to say, since we cannot run a simulation in which Uber/Lyft never existed, just like we can't measure the crimes that weren't committed because of laws.

We can only examine the world as it is, including the economic conditions that precipitate a person taking a ride share job, the long-term financial implications of slowing selling time and vehicle condition, combined with the diminishing returns offered by the company to make some inferences about whether this whole thing is 'good for people' or 'not.' And, I gotta say, the situation is looking more like the latter than the former.

Re: Uber is dropping rates for drivers down from 80 cents/mile to 60 cents/mile

#129

Post by jonahb »

koolba wrote: post #40
PopeDotNinja wrote: post #9

If I were Uber, or any ridesharing service, I'd be optimizing to pay driver's as much as possible. But that's just me.

In what world would that make business sense? Apparently they already lose money (counting marketing costs and incentives) per ride, how can they expect to operate a going concern by striving to increase expenses?

A world in which business cares about more than just profit.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Benefit_corporation

Re: Uber is dropping rates for drivers down from 80 cents/mile to 60 cents/mile

#130

Post by thatfrenchguy »

robertAngst wrote: post #123
adamqureshi wrote: post #118

My brother works for uber, He is 54 years old smokes a pack day and has had 2 heart attacks. He drives a Cadillac and pays $500-month for commercial insurance and has a monthly payment for his car. He has TLC plates to work in NYC ( fees apply) he makes about $300 a day works like a dog 12-14 hours a day. All of his friends are the same (uber drivers in NYC) Here you have the typical uber driver who does this for a l…

What is the thought on these types of people? They are stupid/lazy, but its their genetics and they can't help it. So what is it, that society should do with these people. Curious solutions.

By some metric, your (and my) genetics are also really bad and your (and my) job is not useful for society ;-).

The "it's genetics" argument is also super flawed, as if you look your family 2-4 generations back they were most likely drunk peasants and yet today you're not.

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