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4chan, 8chan blocked by Australian and NZ ISPs for hosting shooting video

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Re: 4chan, 8chan blocked by Australian and NZ ISPs for hosting shooting video

#121

Post by erentz »

RobertRoberts wrote: post #50

What happens when a video of "something" bad happens, a person is put in jail immediately for that "something", but the video is "banned"? And "something" is not even reported on... This is a great tool for stifling opposing politics of _any_ kind. And seems like the easiest way to start an oppressive tyranny than a method of stopping terrorist propaganda. Psychos don't need videos like this. Just watch movies, there…

You’re making the same mistake everyone is making by assuming that the censor in this case is answerable to the Govt and can censor anything he/she likes or is told too. I understand because in the US system that is probably how it would work, it would be a federal agency, and the censor would be appointed by each new president and take his marching orders from the president.

Your argument requires beforehand authoritarian capture of all branches of the NZ government to make sense. At which point the whole suggestion is moot.

Re: 4chan, 8chan blocked by Australian and NZ ISPs for hosting shooting video

#122

Post by DigiMortal »

estebank wrote: post #69
DigiMortal wrote: post #36

They're arresting people for sharing the video This is fucked

Would you hold a different view if this were people sharing an ISIS recruitment video? If so, why?

No, share it all, let the information run free

Re: 4chan, 8chan blocked by Australian and NZ ISPs for hosting shooting video

#123

Post by kbenson »

root_axis wrote: post #117
kbenson wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It feels good to say stuff like that, and it's the kind of reality I want to live in, but my whole point is: - Define innocent - Define political - Define evil In way that is independent of the culture in which it takes place. It might even be possible to do so, or come close, when limited to current cultures and Humans. That's a far cry from proved as universal though. It's been quite a while since I read it, but I…

> It feels good to say stuff like that, and it's the kind of reality I want to live in, but my whole point is: I think the opposite is true. It is gratifying to the logical mind to process this event through the lens of pedantic philosophical analysis, but in real life most things aren't so ambiguous and they definitely aren't ambiguous in this case. > Define innocent In this context I define innocent as "undeserving…

> In this context I define innocent as "undeserving of abrupt and violent execution".

Okay, you've traded innocent for undeserving. That doesn't feel any more definitive to me. Who's undeserving?

> In this context I define political as "of or with regard to government or government policy".

Governments are made up of the people. If they aren't enslaved, then they have some responsibility for the action of said government. It's one group of people doing something to another group. Whether it's from some government or not is irrelevant. For example, is not a non-government group advocating for the eradication of a subgroup of people evil in your reasoning? That's not political in any way.

> In this context I define evil as "a profoundly immoral act".

You've already stated morality is relative in your first comment. You're relying on a relative assessment to claim something as universal.

> Seems pretty straightforward.

It seems fairly shaky to me.

Re: 4chan, 8chan blocked by Australian and NZ ISPs for hosting shooting video

#124

Post by RobertRoberts »

erentz wrote: post #121
RobertRoberts wrote: post #50

What happens when a video of "something" bad happens, a person is put in jail immediately for that "something", but the video is "banned"? And "something" is not even reported on... This is a great tool for stifling opposing politics of _any_ kind. And seems like the easiest way to start an oppressive tyranny than a method of stopping terrorist propaganda. Psychos don't need videos like this. Just watch movies, there…

You’re making the same mistake everyone is making by assuming that the censor in this case is answerable to the Govt and can censor anything he/she likes or is told too. I understand because in the US system that is probably how it would work, it would be a federal agency, and the censor would be appointed by each new president and take his marching orders from the president. Your argument requires beforehand authori…

No, I am viewing this as a general world-wide trend, censoring for _any_ reason you can get people to agree with first. Then, when people agree to censorship in general, they won't fight it when it get's really bad, mainly because they won't know it's happening. (consider China)

The actual "really bad" results of this is years away still. But this is how freedom of speech is stripped away. Under the guise of safety, one tiny piece at a time.

Would George Washington have fought the British if the British had succeeded is censoring every pamphlet? Would India have succeeded in escaping the power of Britain if Ghandi couldn't speak openly?

If the cost of censorship is tyranny world wide, it's not worth it.

We _need_ freedom of speech, even if it allows kooks the same platform, that is cost we should be willing to pay.

Re: 4chan, 8chan blocked by Australian and NZ ISPs for hosting shooting video

#125

Post by tombert »

menacingly wrote: post #70
Oribi wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How can you be ironically racist, and why is that better than racism?

The same way you can be ironically anything. It's not immune to modifiers just because it's offensive.

I mean, I do think it's way too easy for someone to say something horrible, and then get off with no consequences because they claim it's just a joke (or locker room talk... cough).

I'm not exactly sure where we draw the line socially. I don't really have a problem with something like The Colbert Report, but I also really hate the "shitlord" movement that seems to be happening.

Re: 4chan, 8chan blocked by Australian and NZ ISPs for hosting shooting video

#126

Post by aeternus »

fourier_mode wrote: post #88
post_break wrote: post #51

Scary how an ISP can just up and decide to block a website for hosting what they think is offensive. I guess it's the norm for China and Russia. What's scarier are the people cheering this as if it's a win.

> what they think is offensive. This is not a a daily instance of "he says", "she says" offensiveness. This is an act of terror, and these platform served as a propaganda media which ought to stopped.

Is the manifesto also considered propaganda media? What about analysis of that manifesto, or discussions about how to prevent attacks like this based on the contents of the manifesto, especially if they contain excerpts?

Should we ban security companies from using the video for training purposes or to design better security or anti-terror measures?

Should we ban people from sharing the attacker's name?

Should we ban news agencies from even reporting on attacks like this? Keep in mind that news-coverage especially has been shown to incite copy-cat attacks.

Re: 4chan, 8chan blocked by Australian and NZ ISPs for hosting shooting video

#127

Post by LinuxBender »

Freak_NL wrote: post #74
ars wrote: post #29

I watched this "illegal" video. And not only do I think it should not be illegal, I think watching it should be almost mandatory ! Package it with a safety curriculum, and people should watch it to know what to do. In particular: For the most part, those people in the video who ran, lived, those who tried to drop low, or froze up, died. (There were a couple of exceptions.) Additionally, one guy tried to attack the sh…

The chances of being in such a situation are so incredibly small, that training to deal with it is a wasted effort compared to a host of other stuff — e.g., learning CPR, taking a course in safely driving in wintery conditions, employing elementary fire safety precautions in the house, etc. Even stimulating people to learn to swim if they haven't already saves way more lives! If you normalize an attack like this to t…

Some advanced CPR classes actually do cover active-shooter scenario training. I get refreshers every 3 months and full training every year. Ask your CPR training company if they have this available. Not all of them do it.

Re: 4chan, 8chan blocked by Australian and NZ ISPs for hosting shooting video

#128

Post by tomjen3 »

dgellow wrote: post #9

I’m honestly wondering what will happen when that kind of content starts spreading on less centralized networks, such as scuttlebutt, or on IPFS, via Mastodon instances, or others. Things can become bad for decentralization advocates if 4chan trolls start to use those networks to share and protect such content from being blocked by governments.

If it is spread through (secure) Scuttlebut, how will you even know?

Anyway none of those are going to be as big an issue as when people start to share stuff on freenet, if only because when they are forced to put it there, there is no filter between them and untraceable child porn.

Re: 4chan, 8chan blocked by Australian and NZ ISPs for hosting shooting video

#129

Post by deogeo »

manigandham wrote: post #71
mixologic wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, free speech doesnt mean "anything goes". We as a society have made the determination that there are categories of speech that are harmful, and as such are illegal. You cant libel, you cant slander, you cant shout "Fire" in a crowded theater. Speech that advocates for the supression or termination of other people based on their race is "Hate speech" and also illegal. There is neither value nor need for complete…

Free speech is about government interference, and the first 3 categories have unanimous agreement. It's the "hate speech" label that gets complicated based on who defines it. Many who claim things are hate speech today also use hate speech themselves (following your definition of suppression based on race) to shout down and ban others. It shows just how complex this situation is and why "hate speech" is precisely the…

> Free speech is about government interference

No. The 1st amendment of the US constitution is about government interference - the idea of free speech is broader than that.

Re: 4chan, 8chan blocked by Australian and NZ ISPs for hosting shooting video

#130

Post by tomjen3 »

mindslight wrote: post #8
debt wrote: post #5

I’m wondering if the NZ government have a belief that maybe the shooter’s ability to livestream the shooting increased his desire to commit the shooting in the first place.

Alternatively, I feel like seeing the plain video without commentary would take away a lot of the glamor from these events. See the mood change of Black Mirror ep01 after he actually fucks the pig. (from a USian perspective) Instead, we let the media setup a vibrant tradeoff of emotional tourism versus steering away from direct confrontation. Just enough so that indulging can be written off as mourning rather than th…

From those who have watched it, apparently he does provide his own commentary, both occasionally correctly and through his choice of music.
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