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Uber and Airbnb Alumni Fuel Tech’s Next Wave

nytimes.com

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Re: Uber and Airbnb Alumni Fuel Tech’s Next Wave

#121

Post by moorhosj »

JesseAldridge wrote: post #119
habosa wrote: post #104

I have a hard time verbalizing it but something about Uber creating all these millionaires sickens me. In no order: * The business is fundamentally based on ignoring the law. * They've done nothing but lose money, more than any private company ever. * The money keeping them afloat is very dirty (mostly from Saudi Arabia) * The culture is well-known to be awful. * The drivers are completely exploited, working long day…

* They created a transportation network that enables a huge chunk of the world to get from point A to point B quickly, safely, and cheaply. > something about Uber creating all these millionaires sickens me This feeling is called envy.

Isn’t the point made that it’s “cheap-ness” is based on VC subsidization of each ride? People can critique things without being envious, no need for the snark.

Re: Uber and Airbnb Alumni Fuel Tech’s Next Wave

#122

Post by TAForObvReasons »

JesseAldridge wrote: post #119
habosa wrote: post #104

I have a hard time verbalizing it but something about Uber creating all these millionaires sickens me. In no order: * The business is fundamentally based on ignoring the law. * They've done nothing but lose money, more than any private company ever. * The money keeping them afloat is very dirty (mostly from Saudi Arabia) * The culture is well-known to be awful. * The drivers are completely exploited, working long day…

* They created a transportation network that enables a huge chunk of the world to get from point A to point B quickly, safely, and cheaply. > something about Uber creating all these millionaires sickens me This feeling is called envy.

It's hard to explain to people without a strong sense of morality and fairness, but many of us were taught to do the right thing, that "ends don't always justify the means", and that people who cheat or lie or steal or engage in other dubious activities will eventually be punished. If you read the parent post, there's a strong sense that the author doesn't believe the ends justify the means. Your comment suggests that it's ok to do morally reprehensible things in the favor of profits, which is why it's difficult to empathize with the parent.

When you're taught to always do the right thing and not to engage in the profit-maximizing morality-disregarding behavior we see from companies like Uber, when you make the decision not to become employees of those companies, seeing that others did decide to work with those companies really forces you to re-evaluate how the world works. The first step in that process involves disgust reflecting on the bad actors.

Re: Uber and Airbnb Alumni Fuel Tech’s Next Wave

#123

Post by TAForObvReasons »

DeonPenny wrote: post #120
georgewfraser wrote: post #35

> The start-up world projects a meritocratic image, but in reality, it is a small, tightknit club where success typically hinges on whom you know. This is...so not true. My co-founder and I had hardly any network in SV. We applied to YC through the website, raised seed money after demo day. We ran on seed + revenue up to about 60 employees and we recently did a series A. If you don’t have a network, don’t be dissuade…

It absolutely is a network. You just got lucky enough to join one. Without that connection is pretty hard to get started without going to Stanford or knowing someone.

According to crunchbase the parent attended Carnegie-Mellon University, which definitely would have helped getting into the SV fold.

Re: Uber and Airbnb Alumni Fuel Tech’s Next Wave

#124

Post by barry-cotter »

joeblow9999 wrote: post #114
uwuhn wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As someone who uses Uber and Lyft on a daily basis, and has done so for the past three years, their existence has measurably made my life better. Taxis were never an option due to a combination of cost, time, and inconvenience.

How is this possibly downvoted? I suspect only a political agenda could be the cause but I'm willing to hear otherwise.

Here’s your political agenda.

In the entire Anglophone and Francophone world the taxi industry was awful. In the US they were and continue to be racist. They lied about availability and scheduling and they did it for decades. Many people on this website are familiar with the area that used to have the worst taxi service anywhere in the US, San Francisco. Taxi service in NYC existed in large parts of the city in theory but good luck getting a taxi driver to follow the law and actually take you there. And everywhere, absolutely everywhere, the taxi regulator was useless, completely captured by the taxi companies. These awful taxi companies lobbied to keep supply artificially low and prices high, for decades. In France the taxi drivers attacked Uber drivers. Uber’s civil disobedience was completely justified if it broke taxi monopolies.

In countries where taxi service was good and regulators not completely captured Uber has not done much. I’m aware of only one country, Japan.

Fuck the entire taxi industry, with their exploitation of tourists, four hours of saying someone will pick you up in half an hour, racism, tax evasion and broken credit card machines.

That’s the political agenda that supports Uber.

Re: Uber and Airbnb Alumni Fuel Tech’s Next Wave

#125

Post by viscanti »

habosa wrote: post #104

I have a hard time verbalizing it but something about Uber creating all these millionaires sickens me. In no order: * The business is fundamentally based on ignoring the law. * They've done nothing but lose money, more than any private company ever. * The money keeping them afloat is very dirty (mostly from Saudi Arabia) * The culture is well-known to be awful. * The drivers are completely exploited, working long day…

> They've done nothing but lose money, more than any private company ever.

This is a weird take for me. I don't mean to single you out but I see it everywhere. If I went and bought $100 worth of stocks, not many people would say I lost that money. Most people would agree that we have to wait and see how that investment works out. In every other context we call it "investing" (some investments work out and some lose money) but here it's just called "losing money" without even looking to see if it's a good or bad investment.

Re: Uber and Airbnb Alumni Fuel Tech’s Next Wave

#126

Post by ravenstine »

JesseAldridge wrote: post #119
habosa wrote: post #104

I have a hard time verbalizing it but something about Uber creating all these millionaires sickens me. In no order: * The business is fundamentally based on ignoring the law. * They've done nothing but lose money, more than any private company ever. * The money keeping them afloat is very dirty (mostly from Saudi Arabia) * The culture is well-known to be awful. * The drivers are completely exploited, working long day…

* They created a transportation network that enables a huge chunk of the world to get from point A to point B quickly, safely, and cheaply. > something about Uber creating all these millionaires sickens me This feeling is called envy.

> * They created a transportation network that enables a huge chunk of the world to get from point A to point B quickly, safely, and cheaply.

And Mussolini made the trains run on time. /s

Re: Uber and Airbnb Alumni Fuel Tech’s Next Wave

#127

Post by goobynight »

georgewfraser wrote: post #35

> The start-up world projects a meritocratic image, but in reality, it is a small, tightknit club where success typically hinges on whom you know. This is...so not true. My co-founder and I had hardly any network in SV. We applied to YC through the website, raised seed money after demo day. We ran on seed + revenue up to about 60 employees and we recently did a series A. If you don’t have a network, don’t be dissuade…

Cool anecdote. You busted in. Congrats.

Re: Uber and Airbnb Alumni Fuel Tech’s Next Wave

#128

Post by goobynight »

warp_factor wrote: post #79

Airbnb or Uber are not really tech companies. They are business companies with a WebApp required as part of the execution. They didn't invent anything on the technical level, they brought some business ideas to existing tech (I mean Airbnb is literally a website with a DB) In the same way that United is not a tech company, but they have a website that accepts reservation. Tech companies create new Tech as part of the…

Anyone dealing with requests per second at their level is a tech company to a greater capacity than most companies will ever be.

Do they create software as a service, hardware, and so on? No, but they are a group of practitioners that are really good at putting the pieces together.

They've also built a few things like M3 and Envoy.

Re: Uber and Airbnb Alumni Fuel Tech’s Next Wave

#129

Post by mdorazio »

viscanti wrote: post #125
habosa wrote: post #104

I have a hard time verbalizing it but something about Uber creating all these millionaires sickens me. In no order: * The business is fundamentally based on ignoring the law. * They've done nothing but lose money, more than any private company ever. * The money keeping them afloat is very dirty (mostly from Saudi Arabia) * The culture is well-known to be awful. * The drivers are completely exploited, working long day…

> They've done nothing but lose money, more than any private company ever. This is a weird take for me. I don't mean to single you out but I see it everywhere. If I went and bought $100 worth of stocks, not many people would say I lost that money. Most people would agree that we have to wait and see how that investment works out. In every other context we call it "investing" (some investments work out and some lose m…

That's a rather poor analogy. If you go and buy stocks you're buying a security that can be traded back to fiat currency at any point in time. That's... not what startups do. A better analogy would be taking out a loan for $100 with fuzzy repayment terms. If the ROI on that loan is negative, everyone would agree that you're losing money, investment terms be damned.

Re: Uber and Airbnb Alumni Fuel Tech’s Next Wave

#130

Post by mdorazio »

uwuhn wrote: post #109
bosie wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Let's not forget the model is innovative, and a vast improvement on the old way of getting a ride. I am genuinely not trying to be play dumb but what is the innovation or vast improvement? Apps like mytaxi were pretty much showing up before/after uber came to light, without violating laws or exploiting folks. Also, how does such a claim get balanced to the vast financial loss they seem to be accumulating? > created…

As someone who uses Uber and Lyft on a daily basis, and has done so for the past three years, their existence has measurably made my life better. Taxis were never an option due to a combination of cost, time, and inconvenience.

While I agree, it's important to note that the reason for all three of those improvements is billions in subsidies + exploited drivers. If Uber rides were not subsidized, they actually followed employment and licensing laws, and drivers actually accounted for their total expenses properly, the cost we be pretty close to what taxis charge, number of available drivers would decrease, and wait times would increase. The things you and I like about Uber a direct result of unsustainable economics.
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