Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Facebook’s Data Deals Are Under Criminal Investigation

nytimes.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

121–130 of 248 posts

Re: Facebook’s Data Deals Are Under Criminal Investigation

#121

Post by otterley »

darawk wrote: post #119
otterley wrote: post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Bluntly speaking, you are totally, completely wrong. You can't imprison someone in the U.S. unless that person is reasonably suspected of a crime or has committed one. The code in question allows for such imprisonment - that's why it's called "criminal contempt."

> You can't imprison someone in the U.S. unless that person is reasonably suspected of a crime or has committed one I didn't say otherwise. > The code in question allows for such imprisonment - that's why it's called "criminal contempt." I don't disagree. What I said is that breach of a consent decree is not necessarily a case of criminal contempt. And whether or not it does rise to the level of criminality will be d…

Agreed, but it seems like pointless hair-splitting to me. One could reasonably still call it a criminal investigation even if it leads only to a civil contempt finding. Many situations are investigated as possible crimes even if no activity rising to the level of a crime is found.

Re: Facebook’s Data Deals Are Under Criminal Investigation

#122

Post by realodb »

badfrog wrote: post #14

No indication of what the charges are? The closest thing in the article is: > the partnerships seemed to violate a 2011 consent agreement between Facebook and the F.T.C which doesn't seem like it would be criminal? Does the US actually have criminal laws regarding selling data? Any educated guesses on what's actually going on?

I would entertain a wire fraud argument.

Re: Facebook’s Data Deals Are Under Criminal Investigation

#123

Post by evolvedcleaning »

3327 wrote: post #49

Facebook is a criminal corp. And indeed when you are selling data to clients that resell or do with the data as they please (including mining them) they should be under criminal investigation. Thank God the FBI exists and counting for the day that criminal charges are brought against executives who broke the law.

Considering they are accused of broad criminal activity, your statement should be considered a valid expression of public opinion on the matter, and should not be downvoted.

Re: Facebook’s Data Deals Are Under Criminal Investigation

#124

Post by EB66 »

LMYahooTFY wrote: post #120
reaperducer wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Facebook isn't doing anything worse than what Acxiom and other data brokers have been doing for decades Because other people are doing bad things, it's OK for Facebook to do bad things. I'm not sure that's how the law works.

What? That's literally how the law works. What "bad things" we prohibit people from doing is determined by law. We don't have laws regulating the gathering and trade of data on populations or individuals.

Did you read the article?

> Privacy advocates said the partnerships seemed to violate a 2011 consent agreement between Facebook and the F.T.C., stemming from allegations that the company had shared data in ways that deceived consumers.

That (among other things) is what's landing Facebook in legal trouble.

The 2011 FTC consent agreement itself does carry the force of law, which means that if Facebook breaks the terms, it's breaking the law and penalties can be assessed.

Re: Facebook’s Data Deals Are Under Criminal Investigation

#125

Post by artificial »

resters wrote: post #29
JumpCrisscross wrote: post #4

There has been a tremendous amount of grassroots lobbying, fundraising, and private investigation in New York over the past two years with respect to Facebook. It’s a serious area I feel Silicon Valley has abdicated its moral obligation to stand up to its own. Hoping we can develop the evidence that comes out of this case into criminal charges for individual engineers and senior officers.

It started after Facebook started getting blamed for landing Trump in the White House, and the pile-on has increased steadily since then. I’m no fan of FB’s extensive use of dark patterns, but the concerted attack on FB is meant as pressure so that Zuck agrees to let FB be used as a great firewall. Thank you, Zuck, for resisting the pressure if indeed you have. It will only increase as 2020 approaches.

Zygna and the Obama campaign weren’t nearly as vilified for harvesting user data on a massive scale. My suspicion is it’s more of an old vs new media fight.

Re: Facebook’s Data Deals Are Under Criminal Investigation

#126

Post by m4x »

kevin_thibedeau wrote: post #98

Facebook isn't doing anything worse than what Acxiom and other data brokers have been doing for decades. None of it is criminal without any general purpose data protection laws. This is just pitchfork populism.

If federal prosecutors are conducting a criminal investigation, it's almost certain those investigators believe(d) a law was broken. I don't think anyone here is in a position to claim "they did nothing criminal" without inside knowledge of the investigation - in which case you certainly wouldn't be commenting here

Re: Facebook’s Data Deals Are Under Criminal Investigation

#127

Post by darawk »

otterley wrote: post #121
darawk wrote: post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> You can't imprison someone in the U.S. unless that person is reasonably suspected of a crime or has committed one I didn't say otherwise. > The code in question allows for such imprisonment - that's why it's called "criminal contempt." I don't disagree. What I said is that breach of a consent decree is not necessarily a case of criminal contempt. And whether or not it does rise to the level of criminality will be d…

Agreed, but it seems like pointless hair-splitting to me. One could reasonably still call it a criminal investigation even if it leads only to a civil contempt finding. Many situations are investigated as possible crimes even if no activity rising to the level of a crime is found.

Ya, I take your point, but I don't think it really is hair splitting unless one of the following is true:

A) The base rate of consent-decree breaches resulting in a criminal contempt charge is high, which I very much doubt that it is.

B) There is some information about this particular case that makes a criminal contempt charge likely. This could be true, but the article makes no attempt to demonstrate it.

Failing one of these things being true, I don't think it's fair to refer to it, at this stage, as a 'criminal investigation'.

Re: Facebook’s Data Deals Are Under Criminal Investigation

#128

Post by EB66 »

kevin_thibedeau wrote: post #102
anonymfus wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How do you know it?

Unless Facebook is mishandling HIPAA data they can do no wrong in the US.

That's not true.

With the 2011 FTC consent agreement, there is plenty that Facebook can do with customer data that will land them on the wrong side of the law.

Investigating and preventing unfair or deceptive acts/practices affecting commerce is a big part of what the FTC does: https://www.federalreserve.gov/boarddocs/supmanual/cch/ftca....

Re: Facebook’s Data Deals Are Under Criminal Investigation

#129

Post by artificial »

gotocake wrote: post #74
elorant wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So let's incriminate engineers for building a faulty airplane too.

When you hold yourself to the same legal and social standards as actual accredited engineers, of the type who build things like airplanes, you’ll be in a better position. Right now the software works wants the benefits of the unregulated Wild West, without the consequences. Such a scenario simply cannot last, and in the absence of self regulation and setting of standards, the legal system will step in. It’s slow, it’…

Quality software exists and is written by talented engineers. Its written in specific languages and is tested on specific hardware configurations and verifiable. These things cost a bit more. I’m sure if the mass market were willing to bear an enormous cost this would already be solved. Unfortunately I doubt you or your cohorts are willing to pony up $2,999,999 USD a seat (Minimum order 500).
Post reply on HN