Besides China, Ethiopian and cayman airlines both grounded their 737max
Indonesia too.
China orders its airlines to suspend use of Boeing 737 Max aircraft
121–130 of 212 posts
Re: China orders its airlines to suspend use of Boeing 737 Max aircraft
#122People seem to think this is a political move by the China, which may be true, but this is actually what they're supposed to do. According to the article, 96 737 MAX jets are operated by Chinese airlines, and the aircraft appears to be racking up a questionable safety record. I wouldn't put faith in the FAA to be beyond political influence and crack down on an American manufacturer quickly. Lauda Air flight 004 [0] c…
>I wouldn't put faith in the FAA to be beyond political influence and crack down on an American manufacturer quickly. I would. The FAA grounded the Boeing 787 after some widely publicized battery fires: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boeing_787_Dreamliner_battery_... . I would assume that they would do the same thing here, if this also turned out to be a widespread issue not related to aircraft maintenance or pilot tr…
Please don't try to change history. The FAA only took action after the Japanese (the only major operators at the time) stopped flying them.
The same FAA who is in bed with Boeing I might say. Where in the world can you self-certify anything? What's the point of getting certified if you can do it yourself? Reminds me of self-grading in school. That was only in classes noone ever cared about.
https://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-news/faa-faulted-for-ou...
Re: China orders its airlines to suspend use of Boeing 737 Max aircraft
#123Earlier quoted context omitted.
>I wouldn't put faith in the FAA to be beyond political influence and crack down on an American manufacturer quickly. I would. The FAA grounded the Boeing 787 after some widely publicized battery fires: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boeing_787_Dreamliner_battery_... . I would assume that they would do the same thing here, if this also turned out to be a widespread issue not related to aircraft maintenance or pilot tr…
> I would assume that they would do the same thing here, if this also turned out to be a widespread issue not related to aircraft maintenance or pilot training. Two brand new 737 Max from two different types of airlines crashed in 6 months, what else you need to establish the fact that 737 Max worth to be grounded for a full investigation? How "widespread" it need to be? Maybe a few more crashes are required for FAA…
what else you need to establish the fact that 737 Max worth to be grounded for a full investigation?
With all my respect, this is an opinion, not a fact. A fact has to be proven beyond any reasonable doubt. Here it's just "likely to be true" at best.
Re: China orders its airlines to suspend use of Boeing 737 Max aircraft
#124What people are forgetting here is that the 737 Max is an airplane that is designed to make flying more miserable even if you survive the flight. The common seat layout of the Max 8 squeezes in more rows for a worse experience.
Compare the 737 to the Embrarer 175 - the Embrarer is a much smaller plane but it has an elliptical fuselage so that you can stand up comfortably in it and also not get a crick in your neck from being inside a too-small circle.
Many words have been written on the flying experience getting worse, but not enough have been written on the 737. Not too long ago you could find a decent plane like a 757 on a major route in the U.S. (say JFK to LAX) but now you have to squeeze yourself into a 737 sardine can, breathe toxic fumes, etc. It's just awful. But you only hear about it when they are hell-bent on re-engining a plane which isn't tall enough to fit a high-bypass engine and then they have to do all kinds of crazy things to make it fit.
Boeing had a chance to do a clean-sheet design of the 737 but they didn't and now Embrarer is going to eat their lunch.
Re: China orders its airlines to suspend use of Boeing 737 Max aircraft
#125Black box has been located - so I guess we'll see if we get to hear what they find: https://www.cnn.com/2019/03/11/africa/black-box-found-boeing...
If you're interested in wading into the arguments of whether or not this plane is safer or more dangerous than others this is a useful resource: http://www.airsafe.com/events/models/rate_mod.htm
Re: China orders its airlines to suspend use of Boeing 737 Max aircraft
#126Earlier quoted context omitted.
It’s such nonsense, depressing to see it in a highly voted comment.
When I try to look it up I find that China have a rate of 0.45 accidents per million departures while the US have a rate of 1.28. If someone writes something wrong, please provide a source showing them to be wrong. https://www.icao.int/safety/iStars/Pages/Accident-Statistics...
That's by country of occurrence. By country of operator is probably a better indicator. Until very recently, China had more international passengers than domestic.
Your figure is also for a single year.
Re: China orders its airlines to suspend use of Boeing 737 Max aircraft
#127It befuddles me to see people relating this to external motivations, not a genuine concern for safety. Would you fly 737 max8 tomorrow? Anybody who knows anything about Chinese aviation industry knows that it is severely government-regulated industry and the top 1 priority is safety. It has better records than the American counterpart. While BOEING(being one of the pillars of American industry) might twist arms in co…
Billions of dollars are involved in the procurement of the 737. When billions of dollars are involved, politics is inevitable. Why are Boeing the only planes that crash?
Re: China orders its airlines to suspend use of Boeing 737 Max aircraft
#128Earlier quoted context omitted.
China is a one party state which explicitly doesn't permit any organization, much less a government agency, to operate without political interference.
America is a two party state... so what? My point is if your mind is closed to looking at their actions at an objective level, there is no point arguing against your position, since it is that China is inherently evil, and is incapable of good actions. Question is, what if you’re wrong? What if one party is better than two, or four, or 8? And if you can’t consider that possibility, are you any more open than China’s…
There is massive gorge between a one party state and a two party state. Stop trying Arthur they are the same.
Re: China orders its airlines to suspend use of Boeing 737 Max aircraft
#129Earlier quoted context omitted.
Yeah, in my case it was a pretty straightforward situation with 1 airline not having the 8max at all (despite an article saying otherwise?) and my other flights being on 737-700's. I read a fair bit about this whole mess today and saw some posts saying there was a way to use SeatGuru to reliably distinguish between Max 8 / legacy 737-800, but I didn't need to dig that much myself and as you noted especially for fligh…
The death will be quick - why worry so much?
I'm going to go out on a limb and say they don't want to die.
Re: China orders its airlines to suspend use of Boeing 737 Max aircraft
#130People seem to think this is a political move by the China, which may be true, but this is actually what they're supposed to do. According to the article, 96 737 MAX jets are operated by Chinese airlines, and the aircraft appears to be racking up a questionable safety record. I wouldn't put faith in the FAA to be beyond political influence and crack down on an American manufacturer quickly. Lauda Air flight 004 [0] c…
>I wouldn't put faith in the FAA to be beyond political influence and crack down on an American manufacturer quickly. I would. The FAA grounded the Boeing 787 after some widely publicized battery fires: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boeing_787_Dreamliner_battery_... . I would assume that they would do the same thing here, if this also turned out to be a widespread issue not related to aircraft maintenance or pilot tr…
Unfortunately, how the FAA acted under a previous administration doesn't tell us much about how it will act under this one. While the permanent civil service has historically been pretty apolitical, that is one of many norms/institutions the Trump administration has aggressively sought to undermine. As a result, some agencies such as the FDA are severely diminished. Why would we expect the current FAA, under an acting administrator while Trump tries to install a Delta exec as its head (after failing to do so for his personal pilot) to act assertively?