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India Imposes Complete Ban on Solid Plastic Waste Imports

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Re: India Imposes Complete Ban on Solid Plastic Waste Imports

#121

Post by jor-el »

torgian wrote: post #91

Nothing perturbs me more than the whole plastic problem we have. China and India's plastic and garbage pollution is one thing, but Japan is the place that irks me the most when it comes to plastic use. I bought bananas that were wrapped in plastic (go figure, right? ) And what did the cashier do? She wrapped it in more plastic! THEN she gave me a plastic bag to put it in! That blew my mind. Like, why? Just _why_? Go…

Its very much same in Singapore as well. In supermarket, more often than not, cashier puts one item in one plastic bag, so if you are buying a weeks grocery, you easily get 10-12 plastic bags just like that. The vegetables are pre-packed covered with plastic. Some fruits are packed with another harder plastic - apart from the laminated plastic. And the thing that bothered me the most is during chinese new year, each mandarin is covered in plastic individually. Why do you want to cover each mandarin, for a fruit which already has a thick peel!!

With developed countries, with all educated residents, are finding hard to curb plastic use (or lack of effort), it looks humanity is still some distance away to make a serious dent to use of plastic overall.

Re: India Imposes Complete Ban on Solid Plastic Waste Imports

#122

Post by tsimionescu »

noufalibrahim wrote: post #117
djsumdog wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I feel like the debate on human induced climate change is a red haring. It's so abstract, it basically invites conflict and CO2 is absolutely nothing compared to issues of mass consumption. There are huge floating patches of plastic waste our oceans, being swallowed by sea life, killing fish and making its way into our food supply. There are massive lakes of sludge in Chinese and South Pacific factory cities used to…

A low hanging fruit in the attempt to reduce consumption (which is the only real solution) is to stop single-use items. e.g. paper napkins, straws, carry bags from the local grocery shops etc. Just assuming that it's biodegradable or being recycled doesn't take into account the amount of energy and materials that went into production which are just wasted since the items are not reused.

While being low-hanging fruit, these things are also fully irrelevant. If the entire world stopped using them tomorrow, it would barely be a blip on any climate model or ocean pollution model.

Re: India Imposes Complete Ban on Solid Plastic Waste Imports

#123

Post by reactor »

jor-el wrote: post #121
torgian wrote: post #91

Nothing perturbs me more than the whole plastic problem we have. China and India's plastic and garbage pollution is one thing, but Japan is the place that irks me the most when it comes to plastic use. I bought bananas that were wrapped in plastic (go figure, right? ) And what did the cashier do? She wrapped it in more plastic! THEN she gave me a plastic bag to put it in! That blew my mind. Like, why? Just _why_? Go…

Its very much same in Singapore as well. In supermarket, more often than not, cashier puts one item in one plastic bag, so if you are buying a weeks grocery, you easily get 10-12 plastic bags just like that. The vegetables are pre-packed covered with plastic. Some fruits are packed with another harder plastic - apart from the laminated plastic. And the thing that bothered me the most is during chinese new year, each…

I read that Singapore waste management/disposal is top notch, those plastic would most likely end up in incinerator and eventually to man-made offshore Semakau Landfill which itself is an attraction spot.

https://www.channelnewsasia.com/news/singapore/a-rare-glimps...

https://thesmartlocal.com/read/semakau-landfill

Re: India Imposes Complete Ban on Solid Plastic Waste Imports

#124

Post by akudha »

Pristina wrote: post #112
akudha wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I understand commerce makes the world go around, but why is anything and everything always measured in terms of profit and loss? We know plastic sucks and we know we need to reduce its usage, and yet we are still primarily talking about these things in terms of profit and loss, instead of talking about these problems in terms of welfare/sustainability/survival of this planet?

Why don't we just sit around a campfire and sing koombayah and hopefully everybody's problems will go away? If you don't care about money, then just give it all to me. If you do, then these people do too, which is why it's about profit and loss.

I never said I didn't care about money. All I did was ask why we are looking at every problem in terms of money. There are some problems that have become so big (global warming, pollution, loss of top soil...) that looking at these only through the lens of profit/loss makes no sense.

Not sure why the outburst/snark, I started my comment with "I understand commerce makes the world go around" ...

Re: India Imposes Complete Ban on Solid Plastic Waste Imports

#125

Post by black-tea »

andrewstuart wrote: post #4

The dumping of "recycling" onto other countries just goes to show what a lie recycling actually is. It's not recycling, it's just garbage, but the word recycling makes us feel good about sending it to some other country to be dumped. With India and China refusing it, look to the "recycling" companies to make deals with countries that don't have the political will to say no to accepting the worlds plastic and paper ga…

Plastic recycling has always been a massive con that just makes people feel better. If you have food wrapped in plastic that is new material that will never be recycled. Even if it was melted down and turned into something else, that's not recycling, it's just slowing the spiral down to the landfill.

Some materials can truly be recycled, like steel and glass.

Re: India Imposes Complete Ban on Solid Plastic Waste Imports

#126

Post by chewz »

arvinsim wrote: post #96
djsumdog wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I feel like the debate on human induced climate change is a red haring. It's so abstract, it basically invites conflict and CO2 is absolutely nothing compared to issues of mass consumption. There are huge floating patches of plastic waste our oceans, being swallowed by sea life, killing fish and making its way into our food supply. There are massive lakes of sludge in Chinese and South Pacific factory cities used to…

Essentially, we need a better system than capitalism.

I agree. The main objective of capitalism is making people consuming more and more and never only as much as one needs. To change that mindset we need to get rid of capitalism in the first place.

This is also thesis of Naomi Klein book

http://www.naomiklein.org/articles/2018/08/capitalism-killed...

Re: India Imposes Complete Ban on Solid Plastic Waste Imports

#127

Post by mrpopo »

reactor wrote: post #123
jor-el wrote: post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Its very much same in Singapore as well. In supermarket, more often than not, cashier puts one item in one plastic bag, so if you are buying a weeks grocery, you easily get 10-12 plastic bags just like that. The vegetables are pre-packed covered with plastic. Some fruits are packed with another harder plastic - apart from the laminated plastic. And the thing that bothered me the most is during chinese new year, each…

I read that Singapore waste management/disposal is top notch, those plastic would most likely end up in incinerator and eventually to man-made offshore Semakau Landfill which itself is an attraction spot. https://www.channelnewsasia.com/news/singapore/a-rare-glimps... https://thesmartlocal.com/read/semakau-landfill

This is just throwing more (fossil fuel) energy into collecting and burning avoidable trash and into building more structures to accomodate it. How is that "top notch"? This might solve the short-term plastic pollution issue, but goes against all recommendations for climate change mitigation.

It's time to start considering CO2 emissions as our transparent, unmanageable trash. Each Singaporean is generating 10 tonnes of it yearly, and each American is generating 16 tonnes of it yearly.

Re: India Imposes Complete Ban on Solid Plastic Waste Imports

#128

Post by DangitBobby »

tengbretson wrote: post #118
DangitBobby wrote: post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And because it's often the only option. Here's a question for you, which one happened first? A) someone packaged a good in plastic or B) someone bought a good packaged in plastic?

Its a third option: At some point someone decided to package an existing product that was not usually packaged in plastic, in plastic. Consumers decided the new way of packaging was superior and everyone adopted it to keep up.

I have to disagree that all changes in the details of product disbursement originate from an increased benefit to consumers (rather to to benefit producers as your comment implies), but I cant deny that there are substantial benefits on both sides once you ignore the externalities. Regardless, it is practically impossible to avoid buying most goods without at least a small amount of plastic packaging, so even if the masses were capable of organizing to effect change regarding packaging, someone has to recognize a market for it and change practices accordingly.

Re: India Imposes Complete Ban on Solid Plastic Waste Imports

#129

Post by Pristina »

akudha wrote: post #124
Pristina wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why don't we just sit around a campfire and sing koombayah and hopefully everybody's problems will go away? If you don't care about money, then just give it all to me. If you do, then these people do too, which is why it's about profit and loss.

I never said I didn't care about money. All I did was ask why we are looking at every problem in terms of money. There are some problems that have become so big (global warming, pollution, loss of top soil...) that looking at these only through the lens of profit/loss makes no sense. Not sure why the outburst/snark, I started my comment with "I understand commerce makes the world go around" ...

Name the way to create incentives that doesn't involve money then. Many have tried, non is successful.

Pricing, supply, demand, are ways consumers indicate their interest in products and services, and recycling is very low value, because nobody cares.

Re: India Imposes Complete Ban on Solid Plastic Waste Imports

#130

Post by Pristina »

DangitBobby wrote: post #113
Pristina wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What annoys me is the consistent blaming on the 'industry' and 'profit' when industries only make thins people buy. So why do people use single-use plastic? Because they are lazy, and it's convenient.

And because it's often the only option. Here's a question for you, which one happened first? A) someone packaged a good in plastic or B) someone bought a good packaged in plastic?

It's the only option because it's the best option. Without plastic what would you package things with? Everything is shit by comparison.
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