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Dutch join backlash at expensive drugs by making their own

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121–125 of 125 posts

Re: Dutch join backlash at expensive drugs by making their own

#121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the US needs a paradigm shift where it stops thinking of income taxation as taking something from someone. It's not, because under the rules of society, that person is never due that money in the first place. That money is the portion of the nominal sum that is "earned" that accrues to society for the support and conducive living environment that the provide to the individual. It's true that it is coercive: t…

who's suggesting that property laws are obvious? Property laws exist because property is rivalrous , and the commons are generally abused, for example how the #1 polluter in the US is the US government, how the soviet bloc and china were far worse per capita polluters than the US. > But this is also true of all laws, Yes, that's true for all laws. It's funny that no one says it's part of the "social contract" when so…

> who's suggesting that property laws are obvious?

Anyone who says they believe in "small government". That small set of rules always happens to include property laws.

> when someone gets choked out and killed by the police

That's also illegal. I would also advocate enforcing the law against law enforcement officers. Stronger than against ordinary citizens if anything.

> we think it's great because it's "punishes" the wealthy

Actually, I think that (even assuming that it were enforced) it does little to no harm to the wealthy. They have sufficient wealth that having less has almost no impact on their well-being.

> The problem is that political power is a zero-sum game, so any solution that gives those in power more power will only make matters worse.

Giving money to the poor gives them political power. Or rather economic power, which is a good substitute, and often what the rich use to gain political power.

Ideally we'd have some kind of basic income which provides this function directly. But other socially funded initiatives such as healthcare and education are also helpful in this regard.

Re: Dutch join backlash at expensive drugs by making their own

#122
post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> What troubles me about insulin prices is that raising prices can simultaneously be used to satisfy shareholders with growing profits AND be used to fund new drugs (revenue from existing drugs obviously must fund the creation of new drugs). That's not obvious at all; there's no reason creation of new drugs couldn't be financed by raising capital through either debt or equity issues, which are then paid back, in effe…

Fair reply, and thank you for replying. While I agree the funding mechanisms you mentioned certainly must exist, I imagine things like unexpected delays for a given therapy or complications with a clinical trial (not with the medicine but with some procedural stuff) must happen. Times where existing room in revenue streams is vital for the development. Secondly, if a publicly traded company already has a significant…

At some point, medications like insulin should be de-patented so that they're in the public domain.

Re: Dutch join backlash at expensive drugs by making their own

#123

One thing that is typically not mentioned in these debates is the fundamental structure of the industry. Let's say someone finds a research compound which looks to be promising, and they start a new company to try to commercialize it. Often, they are looking at at least 1-2 decades to get that product to market. Assuming they don't sell out to a big company, they almost certainly have to go public before starting tri…

It's true for new drugs, but insuline price have been multiplied by 5 during the last decade ( https://www.ontrackdiabetes.com/type-1-diabetes/insulin-pric... ), which is a drug that should actually cost less to make, since we know it very well, and have a lot of demand now with the obesity epidemic.

Similar thing happened to dexamphetamine, an ADHD medication. It's not quite as bad (also because people need insulin to live, but dexamphetamine to function), but it just shows how tremendously STUPID this whole business is. Note that dexamphetamine is an old, very well-known medicine, just like insulin, none of the bullshit about pharma-startups business plans and research costs apply.

So, basically someone bought the rights to the 5mg tabs, and now those are uninsured and would rack up 100s of euros per month. So instead you get the same prescription but in 2.5mg tabs, which is available as a generic brand and therefore just about free under Dutch healthcare. This may seem like a small difference, but we're talking about people with attention-deficit disorder, having to count and not get distracted twice as many pills, right at the moment the previous dose wears off. Taking them at a very precise regular schedule at the right dose really can make a huge difference in effectiveness. You don't want to get it wrong.

Sure it's not insulin, and it's mostly an inconvenience, but it's just so STUPID. I mean who the hell obtains the rights to 5mg dexamphetamine tablets? How? Why? And could the same happen to paracetamol?

Re: Dutch join backlash at expensive drugs by making their own

#124
post #54

Are there countries where drug research and production isn't privatized? I would naively consider it ideal if research and “recipes” were made in the open, shared between countries and the production wouldn't be the job of for-profits… what am I missing?

Cuba maybe?

Re: Dutch join backlash at expensive drugs by making their own

#125
post #91
post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In the US it takes: * 4 years undergrad, of which 90 credit hours must be a specific series of courses * 4 years PharmD, doctorate program * 1800 hours of internship At this point a student has met all requirements to sit for the two license exams (NAPLEX and MPJE[^1]):). Many students will elect for an additional period of education due to the competitive nature of pharmacist jobs in the USA. Those two extra opportu…

12 years of training... does that even make economic sense? Do pharmacists get paid a lot?

Yes. The ones at local pharmacies make probably low six figures, that's the 8 year track. The 12 year guys are probably making high six to low seven. I used to live in Connecticut near Pfizer and that place was densely packed with large salaries. Granted, I think they invented Viagra so lots of money there
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