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Google Wants $15M in Tax Breaks to Build a Data Center in Minnesota

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Re: Google Wants $15M in Tax Breaks to Build a Data Center in Minnesota

#121

Post by WkndTriathlete »

admax88q wrote: post #90
chrisco255 wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You presume they don't have other options. If they don't give any incentive, then they just go somewhere that does offer incentives. Wisconsin or North Dakota or whoever else will take them.

Data centre placement is driven by a heck of a lot more than tax incentives. If they're looking to build a data centre in one place its because it fits their huge list of criteria. Tax breaks are just icing on the cake. They want a data centre here regardless.

I'm really curious what you think the other criteria are, because I can tell you that Becker, MN, is around 90 minutes from the Minneapolis-St. Paul metro area and solidly in the middle of farm country.

I can only surmise that their list of criteria was limited to "minimize dollars per square foot in rent per month" and "vaguely somewhat near a metro area."

Re: Google Wants $15M in Tax Breaks to Build a Data Center in Minnesota

#122

Post by admax88q »

WkndTriathlete wrote: post #121
admax88q wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Data centre placement is driven by a heck of a lot more than tax incentives. If they're looking to build a data centre in one place its because it fits their huge list of criteria. Tax breaks are just icing on the cake. They want a data centre here regardless.

I'm really curious what you think the other criteria are, because I can tell you that Becker, MN, is around 90 minutes from the Minneapolis-St. Paul metro area and solidly in the middle of farm country. I can only surmise that their list of criteria was limited to "minimize dollars per square foot in rent per month" and "vaguely somewhat near a metro area."

Power is the biggest expense of a data center. So either access to cheap power, or access to cheap cooling to offset power are probably the top criteria.

I'm sure there's others, latency to customers and real estate cost like you mentioned. Connectivity, construction costs, political stability.

Re: Google Wants $15M in Tax Breaks to Build a Data Center in Minnesota

#123

Post by supernovae »

tptacek wrote: post #104
supernovae wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why should taxpayers have to take the risk for Google if the opportunity and reason for Google to be there is already there? If it's already win-win for everyone, why even have the tax abatement? Google being the extremely profitable company it is, shouldn't need to create liabilities for a market it's trying to promise jobs too. a lot changes in 20 years and if its anything like the telco industry it will mean they…

What risk are taxpayers taking?

They're taking on growth with an abatement on revenue

Re: Google Wants $15M in Tax Breaks to Build a Data Center in Minnesota

#124

Post by supernovae »

chrisco255 wrote: post #109
supernovae wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apparently, I offended you. I am sorry to offend you. My goal is not to offend you but to mock a culture I find appalling just as I mock the concept of granting tax incentives to hugely profitable companies as offensive. Humor is how I cope with a world where daily news is talking about extreme poverty, extreme profit and very little for those - who may be like you or me well in the middle who are pawns in these game…

https://www.mprnews.org/story/2019/02/25/wind-energy-tax-bre... Look, the incentives are reductions in property taxes for building a $600 million data center powered by carbon-free electricity. That's 2.5% of the total investment into the property. The city and state will still pull in tax revenue from Google in the form of property taxes over the 20+ years it will run for. Besides that and more to your point, coming…

Those benefits don't have to come at the potential cost and risk to taxpayers though. If Google needs a datacenter they should open a data center - a city shouldn't have to incentivize and already profitable company. Economics makes no sense if the success requires incentives to those already winning.

growth is good, opportunity is good - not a single one of us disputes that. Google doesn't need taxpayer incentives to grow or remain competitive.

They're getting a discount on driving up the value of land and cost of living for local people when the real winners won't be anywhere near the datacenter and the company will cary an asset on their books worth much more money than what it cost them to build on the backs of tax payers who won't have the same experience of abated property values.

at least google is honest about school taxes... so yay, they're not screwing that over but meh.. the whole policy of tax payers funding winners and losers with games only big corporations are allowed to play BLOWS.

Re: Google Wants $15M in Tax Breaks to Build a Data Center in Minnesota

#125

Post by tptacek »

nightski wrote: post #117
tptacek wrote: post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How exactly is this a drain on the town? People keep saying things like this and it is not at all clear how that could be happening. The opposite seems likely: Google building a huge data center here will, in fact, be an economic boon (marginal or significant, we can debate). This isn't money the county is paying Google, or that Google is somehow taking from the town. It's a data center built on an empty field in the…

The middle of nowhere? Do you even know the area at all? It's right next to the twin cities which has a metro population of 4 million people, home to many multi billion dollar companies (Cargill, Target, Best Buy, 3M, United Health Group, U. S. Bancorp, General Mills, shall I go on?). Many things in a small city are supported solely by property taxes, to which Google would not contribute at all for at least two decad…

It's about an hour northwest of Minneapolis. A vacant lot in Dekalb or Manteno might be "right next" to Chicago in the sense that Ulaanbaatar "isn't right next to" Chicago, but: a vacant lot in Manteno is the middle of nowhere.

You can just drive around it in Google Maps to get a sense of it, and where it is. I stand by my assessment of the value of this land.

Re: Google Wants $15M in Tax Breaks to Build a Data Center in Minnesota

#126

Post by justinmchase »

wyldfire wrote: post #31
justinmchase wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Its probably more about the money coming into the community and the types of people that would work there generally adding to the labor pool of the area. As jobs appear and wages go up those people spend a great deal of their money in the area and more jobs show up and as those employees look for a new job other businesses can compete for those higher skilled employees.

> As jobs appear and wages go up those people spend a great deal of their money in the area fifty datacenter jobs? These are probably not the folks raking in the big comp and RSUs. ...it's a race to the bottom, legislators see a simple equation that converts public money into tallies in their win column, to be used while jockeying for more power or re-election.

Well I agree with that, subsidising industry with public money is not fair to everyone else and doesn't necessarily pay off at all. But having, even those relatively small number of jobs in a community could really help depending on the city size, it seems find to court business but using tax money or offering big tax cuts is kind of BS.

Re: Google Wants $15M in Tax Breaks to Build a Data Center in Minnesota

#127

Post by pooloo1 »

supernovae wrote: post #82
pooloo1 wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> 2. Why would a datacenter increase land value? This isn't a corporate headquarters, it's a datacenter. Data centers require backbones to provide their services. Becker sits outside the range of most ISP's, in addition to no fiber connection; Monticello being the closest with fiber. I suspect there will be a substantial contract for laying fiber here, thus further increasing value of the land.

Centurylink is already passing through there. They already have 1gb internet for 65.00/month there. That's cheaper than what I pay here in Austin.

They dont have GB internet there, I have family there. =P

Re: Google Wants $15M in Tax Breaks to Build a Data Center in Minnesota

#128

Post by [deleted] »

tptacek wrote: post #125
nightski wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The middle of nowhere? Do you even know the area at all? It's right next to the twin cities which has a metro population of 4 million people, home to many multi billion dollar companies (Cargill, Target, Best Buy, 3M, United Health Group, U. S. Bancorp, General Mills, shall I go on?). Many things in a small city are supported solely by property taxes, to which Google would not contribute at all for at least two decad…

It's about an hour northwest of Minneapolis. A vacant lot in Dekalb or Manteno might be "right next" to Chicago in the sense that Ulaanbaatar "isn't right next to" Chicago, but: a vacant lot in Manteno is the middle of nowhere. You can just drive around it in Google Maps to get a sense of it, and where it is. I stand by my assessment of the value of this land.

[deleted]
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