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Accepting Bitcoin as a Small Business – 4 Years In, No Customers

seymour-locksmiths.co.uk

121–130 of 243 posts

Re: Accepting Bitcoin as a Small Business – 4 Years In, No Customers

#121
The biggest argument against bitcoin, in my mind is this:

Regulators really only get involved in allowing/prohibiting innovations very late in the game. I'm thinking of how Air BNB and Uber were allowed to grow really huge despite being blatantly in violation of a lot of laws in a lot of places (for example restrictions around subletting in contracts between tenants and landlords, regulations around running businesses that are hotels or taxis, etc). Only after they had gotten really big did regulators start to think about whether or not they like what's going on, and then they shut down large parts of the sharing economy.

For bitcoin there are only two scenarios in my mind: Either it dies right now for the problems it is facing right now (network externalities around lack of merchants/customers outside darknet/illegal stuff, volatility etc), or it overcomes those problems, gets really big, and is then killed by regulators.

For the most part the trend in regulation of financial services and financial reporting has been: erosion of banking secrecy (even Switzerland and tax havens in the Carribean are now sharing data with law enforcement), anti-money laundering regulation tightened (FATCA/CRS), increased requirements around creating transparency about ownership of legal entities in cross-border corporate structures (e.g. "persons of significant control" register introduced in the U.K. and many European countries), increased reporting obligations around cash transactions even for small businesses (parts of Europe are now mandating the introduction of electronic cash-registers capable of reporting on a transaction-by-transaction basis even for small businesses like a self-employed taxi driver), etc. etc.

Allowing bitcoin to happen would not fit into that regulatory trend AT ALL.

It's just that bitcoin isn't big enough yet for regulators to even be thinking about it. But it'll happen.

Re: Accepting Bitcoin as a Small Business – 4 Years In, No Customers

#122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Depends on the industry. For very large transactions, like if you are paying a home improvement contractor for something, they will often make you eat the fees if you want to pay with a credit card. So you end up having to figure out where your checkbook is (probably collecting dust in a box somewhere). I give Bitcoin and LN a continuous pass on UX for now. We're in the infrastructure phase -- growing trust and impro…

> So you end up having to figure out where your checkbook is (probably collecting dust in a box somewhere). Are you based in the US? Because almost everywhere else in the world when you say checkbook, people picture movies from the 1970s. When paying a home improvement contractor, they send me an invoice where they have an IBAN. I point my banks app at it, it pops up a screen where I just type in the amount that I wi…

Yes. I pay my window cleaner this way.

Re: Accepting Bitcoin as a Small Business – 4 Years In, No Customers

#123

The biggest argument against bitcoin, in my mind is this: Regulators really only get involved in allowing/prohibiting innovations very late in the game. I'm thinking of how Air BNB and Uber were allowed to grow really huge despite being blatantly in violation of a lot of laws in a lot of places (for example restrictions around subletting in contracts between tenants and landlords, regulations around running businesse…

[deleted]

Re: Accepting Bitcoin as a Small Business – 4 Years In, No Customers

#124
post #77

IMO, UX is a minor issue. Why would anyone spend hard money before fiat money? (Gresham's law) Also each spending could trigger a separate taxable event (depending on your jurisdiction) and that would be a serious accounting nightmare if done willy-nilly for casual payments. Bitcoin is a store of value and a payment rail for significant sums. Currently it is not suitable for casual/small retail payments. In near/mid-…

I think Gresham's Law explains it. I could pay a locksmith in bitcoin, but I would rather keep my bitcoin and pay with USD. Bitcoin is harder to get and can be used for purposes that USD cannot (e.g.: donating to financially censored people and organizations).

Re: Accepting Bitcoin as a Small Business – 4 Years In, No Customers

#125
post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most of the issues with "international banking" are infact just issues with North American banks. I can transfer large sums of money around Europe and it will arrive in few days at the very latest. Within the same country transfers mostly arrive the same day (often it's under 1 hour), and sometimes that happens internationally too. Oh and I don't need to pay anything for that. A few years ago I was working in the Mid…

> I can transfer large sums of money around Europe and it will arrive in few days at the very latest. I can do the same in the US, except it’s instantaneous, not sure what you are talking about.

One surprise for me, as a European, is that in America people seem to regard bank account numbers as secret - I dwell on forums for landlords, etc, and people expect to collect cash/cheques from their tenants, rather than sharing bank details.

Unrelated to your alleged speed, but another odd perception of the American banking systems.

(Lots of other people in this thread seem to suggest you're an outlier; I don't know enough to guess either way.)

Re: Accepting Bitcoin as a Small Business – 4 Years In, No Customers

#126
post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> So you end up having to figure out where your checkbook is (probably collecting dust in a box somewhere). Are you based in the US? Because almost everywhere else in the world when you say checkbook, people picture movies from the 1970s. When paying a home improvement contractor, they send me an invoice where they have an IBAN. I point my banks app at it, it pops up a screen where I just type in the amount that I wi…

That's not limited to large payments such as home improvements, either. I do the same thing to pay the guy who comes to tune our piano; I even did it to pay each of the individual cleaners who did a few hours end-of-tenancy cleaning for us the last time we moved. Checking my chequebook, I see it's well over a year since I last used it.

It's been 20ish years since local grocery-stores, supermarkets, and most shops stopped accepting cheques in the UK.

I've written less than 50 in my life, mostly for mail-order stuff back 15 years. In the past 15 years I've never even owned a cheque-book, the banks just don't give them out.

Re: Accepting Bitcoin as a Small Business – 4 Years In, No Customers

#127
post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A lot of rich people use Bitcoin for self-realisation (e.g. to get that special "I own a lot of Bitcoin" feeling). As an average person, you might think it's a ridiculous use case but it's actually very important to them, therefore it's very important full stop. It's the same reason why fine Art is expensive. People want to experience a very specific "I own a Picasso" feeling. Normal people don't understand this, but…

Okay, so in addition to that claim being unsupported and rather unlikely you have a major problem with this theory: art only requires one person to like it but a currency requires an active network and someone who just likes to look at SHA hashes isn't going to generate much transaction volume.

Well there are a lot of technology-oriented rich people who want to be able to say to themselves and others that x% of their wealth is in Bitcoin (even if it's just a hedge bet) and this shared desire to own Bitcoin is reliable enough that it can be quantified; and that shared desire determines the market cap of Bitcoin.

It's not different from any other currency. The main difference is that a government cannot use the tax system to force people to use Bitcoin - But then again, the government cannot force rich people to pay tax at all.

Re: Accepting Bitcoin as a Small Business – 4 Years In, No Customers

#128

ITT: Bitcoin as a store of value not a medium of exchange. They should look into decentralized stablecoins like DAI (1 DAI = 1$). Particularly xDAI and BurnerWallet https://medium.com/gitcoin/burner-wallet-at-ethdenver-was-fa... are interesting.

I've been given some xDAI at an event, and spent hours trying to get them out of the burner wallet, to no avail. This left a very bad impression to many people there. They're still stuck there.

xDAI is no more than a few months old, and DAI itself is a little over a year old. Give it some time... Come back in a decade or two if you're looking for super smooth user experiences.

Re: Accepting Bitcoin as a Small Business – 4 Years In, No Customers

#129

It's about time we admit the emperor has no clothes. BTC/ETH/XYY/123 can store value (I don't care to get into the fluctuations right now) and moving it around can be a lot easier than outdated systems like ACH but they are terrible for paying for things. Maybe something like the lightning network or similar will be able to solve part of that but accepting BTC has always been more of a fad/PR-move than an actual busi…

Users that already have a Bitcoin wallet don't have to jump through any hoops to spend BTC. It's just as easy as any kind of digital money transfer.

Obviously using BTC to pay for anything is a huge hassle if you don't already have a wallet with some BTC in it. But that's like saying Apple Pay is inconvenient because your customers have to go to and buy an iPhone first.

Re: Accepting Bitcoin as a Small Business – 4 Years In, No Customers

#130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They never will be. I think people misunderstand cryptocurrencies because of the mania that surrounds them. Bitcoin, for example, is a protocol, and should be judged as such. The most important thing for the protocol is trust, reliability, and scalability. Not UX and convenience. That could/should come from the layers/products that get built on top of the protocol.

Satoshi Nakamoto did say this: > The existing Visa credit card network processes about 15 million Internet purchases per day worldwide. Bitcoin can already scale much larger than that with existing hardware for a fraction of the cost. He clearly expected Bitcoin to cheaper and faster than credit cards and I've often wondered how he could have been so wrong about that.

That's likely because he expected the block size to increase in addition to second layer scaling solutions.
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