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China sentences Canadian man to death in drug case linked to Huawei row

washingtonpost.com

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Re: China sentences Canadian man to death in drug case linked to Huawei row

#121

Post by Scoundreller »

foldr wrote: post #110
mikeash wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Weird. I have never had a pleasant experience with US customs. They are usually not unpleasant either, but they’re never friendly or even more than vaguely polite. (I say “usually” because my wife was once told off quite rudely when she went through the visitors line as a permanent resident, because she wanted to help and translate for visiting family members she was with.) The worst part of the experience is knowing…

I've been through many times as white British person (both as a visitor and on various visas) and have never had a bad experience. I'm not denying that people do have bad experiences. But I find it kind of hard to believe that as a US citizen, you've never once had an experience of re-entering the country that didn't involve the customs agent asking you a couple of simple questions and then sending you on your way.

Since they have to let US citizens in, you likely don’t have to answer questions unrelated to the goods you’re bringing back.

But the pressure is obviously there to answer anyway.

Re: China sentences Canadian man to death in drug case linked to Huawei row

#122

Post by mongol »

schuke wrote: post #13
b88d80170 wrote: post #3

If he is not Canadian, would it be different for such drug case?

Probably not. Death sentence for drug-related crimes are very common in China. A British citizen got death sentence too a few years back.

Was he executed?

Re: China sentences Canadian man to death in drug case linked to Huawei row

#123

Post by jopsen »

mikeash wrote: post #28
CydeWeys wrote: post #4

At this point I think I'm too afraid to ever go to China. You can't get justice there, and you can be swept up into some stupid diplomatic spat. Don't they realize how short-sighted this is? This is incredibly harmful to tourism.

He was already a convicted drug trafficker. I don’t see any indication that his original 15-year sentence was improper. It is possible that he was falsely convicted, of course, but I don’t know that this is more likely in China than elsewhere. Suddenly changing his sentence to death is rather suspicious, but at least for me it doesn’t make a huge difference compared to a 15-year sentence. Random anecdote: I just got…

> Random anecdote: I just got back to the US from several weeks in China.

I'm sure most people will be fine visiting China, but personally I like rule-of-law :)

No justice system is perfect. Coming from Denmark, I'm not impressed by the US justice system. But if you hire a lawyer your odds of a fair trial is decent.

But in China there is no assumption of regularity, or assumption of good faith. If someone powerful doesn't like you or wants to send a message -- then I guess you can take solace in the fact that your organs might not go to waste.

Re: China sentences Canadian man to death in drug case linked to Huawei row

#124

Post by mikeash »

simonh wrote: post #99
mikeash wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is it really? It seems pretty widely accepted that the death penalty doesn’t deter crime, for example, which indicates that people (well, potential criminals, anyway) don’t see it as substantially worse than a lengthy prison term.

It's not about which is worse either though. The implicit calculation is: If I get caught, will the punishment deter me. But (approximately) nobody commits a crime on the assumption they will get caught, so it pretty much doesn't matter what the punishment is. The way to move the needle is to change the assumption about getting caught. The closer that tends towards guaranteed, the less chance people will even make ab…

Yes, exactly. And my thinking for travel is much the same. I’m not traveling on the assumption that I will be falsely convicted of a crime while I’m there. The way to move the needle on my decision to travel is to change the assumption about being falsely convicted, not what will happen to me if I am. Thus, a man already in prison for years suddenly being sentenced to death doesn’t change my travel plans at all.

Re: China sentences Canadian man to death in drug case linked to Huawei row

#125

Post by onetimemanytime »

mikeash wrote: post #53
fermienrico wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’ve always had a pleasant experience returning home. I travel 200 days in a year and never have I had a bad experience during US Immigration. In fact, I look forward to “Welcome home” from an officer although now it’s more expedited with the automated passport control and they hardly take more than 20 seconds to let you go. I am curious of your bad experience, can you tell us more? Edit: I do not look like a typical…

Weird. I have never had a pleasant experience with US customs. They are usually not unpleasant either, but they’re never friendly or even more than vaguely polite. (I say “usually” because my wife was once told off quite rudely when she went through the visitors line as a permanent resident, because she wanted to help and translate for visiting family members she was with.) The worst part of the experience is knowing…

Curious...is your wife from a country that is not on good relations with USA? Have you traveled to the likes of Iran, Syria etc? Do you think your name has the equivalent of an asterik next to it?

They have so many people to process that unless you "piss them off" (as judged by them) and you are a US citizen with all docs in order they don't usually pick on people.

Re: China sentences Canadian man to death in drug case linked to Huawei row

#126

Post by desireco42 »

fermienrico wrote: post #37
mikeash wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He was already a convicted drug trafficker. I don’t see any indication that his original 15-year sentence was improper. It is possible that he was falsely convicted, of course, but I don’t know that this is more likely in China than elsewhere. Suddenly changing his sentence to death is rather suspicious, but at least for me it doesn’t make a huge difference compared to a 15-year sentence. Random anecdote: I just got…

I’ve always had a pleasant experience returning home. I travel 200 days in a year and never have I had a bad experience during US Immigration. In fact, I look forward to “Welcome home” from an officer although now it’s more expedited with the automated passport control and they hardly take more than 20 seconds to let you go. I am curious of your bad experience, can you tell us more? Edit: I do not look like a typical…

You are uniquely lucky person and probably by other responses you can see how rare is experience like yours. While I never had huge problems on the border, it is always unpleasant experience and what they can do to you is so overproportional to things you can be seen at fault.

My mother in law sneaked an orange in our suitcase, for the kids. I was charged $150 or $300(not sure anymore) for it and put on some list.

The best. experience is when you can pass without any interaction. Rarely I see it as welcome home, even though I am eager go and happy to be, home.

God help you if you are from Syria, Iran or any other country like that. Even Israelis because they 'look arab' often have issues.

Re: China sentences Canadian man to death in drug case linked to Huawei row

#127

Post by [deleted] »

korvighua wrote: post #72
CydeWeys wrote: post #4

At this point I think I'm too afraid to ever go to China. You can't get justice there, and you can be swept up into some stupid diplomatic spat. Don't they realize how short-sighted this is? This is incredibly harmful to tourism.

Related links: Thirteen Canadians have been detained in China since Huawei executive’s arrest, says Ottawa https://www.theglobeandmail.com/politics/article-thirteen-ca... China says detained Canadian Michael Kovrig doesn't have diplomatic immunity https://www.cbc.ca/news/world/china-says-detained-canadian-m... You shouldn't be going to a country where they don't even respect diplomatic immunity

[deleted]

Re: China sentences Canadian man to death in drug case linked to Huawei row

#128

Post by mikeash »

learc83 wrote: post #115
yorwba wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

According to your link, the teacher was employed illegally. It's common for students and other people without work permits to be offered positions as English teachers where the only requirement is being born in North America. The employers usually gloss over the illegality or claim that the laws are not enforced. That's been true in the past, but as that teacher had to learn, it can change anytime. So my generalized…

>So my generalized advice is to comply with the law In a country where millions of people are held in reeducation camps for practicing the wrong religion, the "law" as written is a joke. From friends living their, it's impossible to actually strictly follow what's on the books, particularly for foreigners. You have to know the current expectations, what's being enforced by the local government etc... What matters isn…

Is there any country where it is not somewhat common for foreigners to work there illegally without being punished, and also for those foreign workers to occasionally get caught and deported for it?

Re: China sentences Canadian man to death in drug case linked to Huawei row

#129

Post by j1vms »

mikeash wrote: post #28
CydeWeys wrote: post #4

At this point I think I'm too afraid to ever go to China. You can't get justice there, and you can be swept up into some stupid diplomatic spat. Don't they realize how short-sighted this is? This is incredibly harmful to tourism.

He was already a convicted drug trafficker. I don’t see any indication that his original 15-year sentence was improper. It is possible that he was falsely convicted, of course, but I don’t know that this is more likely in China than elsewhere. Suddenly changing his sentence to death is rather suspicious, but at least for me it doesn’t make a huge difference compared to a 15-year sentence. Random anecdote: I just got…

> ... at least for me it doesn’t make a huge difference compared to a 15-year sentence.

There isn't a huge difference between a death sentence versus 15 years in prison? You're kidding right?

Whether the person is in fact guilty or innocent, there is a significant difference between the two sentences, literally the difference between life or death. One irrevocably extinguishes the person's life - there is no going back. The other is a very long incarceration, cutting them off from society for that time, and offering at best a chance for correction.

Re: China sentences Canadian man to death in drug case linked to Huawei row

#130

Post by mikeash »

onetimemanytime wrote: post #125
mikeash wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Weird. I have never had a pleasant experience with US customs. They are usually not unpleasant either, but they’re never friendly or even more than vaguely polite. (I say “usually” because my wife was once told off quite rudely when she went through the visitors line as a permanent resident, because she wanted to help and translate for visiting family members she was with.) The worst part of the experience is knowing…

Curious...is your wife from a country that is not on good relations with USA? Have you traveled to the likes of Iran, Syria etc? Do you think your name has the equivalent of an asterik next to it? They have so many people to process that unless you "piss them off" (as judged by them) and you are a US citizen with all docs in order they don't usually pick on people.

She is from China, hence all of my trips there. I don’t think I set off any red flags. I know they don’t usually pick on people, and haven’t picked on me or my family aside from that one incident, but the odds of being picked on by USCIS are way higher than the odds of being picked on by Chinese police as a foreign tourist.
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