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Patreon Bars Anti-Feminist for Racist Speech, Inciting Revolt

nytimes.com

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Re: Patreon Bars Anti-Feminist for Racist Speech, Inciting Revolt

#121

Post by darkpuma »

eesmith wrote: post #98
darkpuma wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can't speak to what's really in the guy's head, but he seemed to be arguing with and insulting nazis.

> Likewise, Benjamin has been called right wing and an alt-right sympathizer by multiple news outlets. He rejects those characterizations, calling himself a “classical liberal.” However, a recent Southern Poverty Law Center report revealed he has been a stepping stone for some white supremacists on the path to radicalization. The Right Stuff, an unapologetically racist, antisemitic blog founded by white supremacist M…

While an effective indictment of his moral character, that's not him advocating genocide, which is what I was responding to. I never claimed he's a good person.

Re: Patreon Bars Anti-Feminist for Racist Speech, Inciting Revolt

#122

Post by [deleted] »

orthecreedence wrote: post #33

I'm torn about this. On the one hand, Patreon shouldn't have to do business with people they don't like. On the other hand, at what point do we accept that we have different viewpoints and live and let live? The biggest one for me in recent history was Cloudflare arbitrarily deciding to stop hosting the Daily Stormer. Sure, DS is vile, but at the point we start enforcing censorship on a whim instead of hardened polic…

[deleted]

Re: Patreon Bars Anti-Feminist for Racist Speech, Inciting Revolt

#123

Post by [deleted] »

nkurz wrote: post #69

The article avoids the specifics of what Benjamin said, which makes it hard to judge whether Patreon is acting reasonably. The interview in question is here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XQ87Wf-0rZg . Here are some excerpts from the automatically generated transcript (click the 3 dots, then "Open transcript"): I just can't be bothered to deal with people who treat me like this it's really annoying like I you are a…

[deleted]

Re: Patreon Bars Anti-Feminist for Racist Speech, Inciting Revolt

#124

Post by augustl »

nkurz wrote: post #69

The article avoids the specifics of what Benjamin said, which makes it hard to judge whether Patreon is acting reasonably. The interview in question is here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XQ87Wf-0rZg . Here are some excerpts from the automatically generated transcript (click the 3 dots, then "Open transcript"): I just can't be bothered to deal with people who treat me like this it's really annoying like I you are a…

According to Carl Benjamin himself, the comments were meant ironically. He was reacting to a chat stream, which is missing context in that video, and the chat used slurs like this. So Benjamin used the slurs back at them.

Having said that, we have to assume Benjamin’s inner thoughts to know what he really meant, so I’m not arguing we should disregard it completely because of his alledged good intentions.

Re: Patreon Bars Anti-Feminist for Racist Speech, Inciting Revolt

#125

Post by fucking_tragedy »

darkpuma wrote: post #100
fucking_tragedy wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> arguing with and insulting nazis. He wasn't arguing with white supremacists because he fundamentally disagreed with them. It was infighting between factions. He disagreed with a particular faction's behavior and words. He was arguing with them because they, using his words, were acting like "white n-words"[1]: > “ I just can’t be bothered with people who chose to treat me like this. It’s really annoying. Like, I —…

I'm aware of what he said. He also said: ‘I was being anti-Nazi,’ I can't get into his brain and determine if he actually opposes genocide or secretly supports it, but from what I've seen thus far it seems he carelessly uses offensive racially charged language but takes exception with those who advocate for genocide. Just so we're clear, I don't like this guy. I dislike a lot of people who fall well short of being na…

Right, he agrees with white supremacists, and is happy to repeat their talking points, up until public advocacy of genocide. He's happy to say things like this[1]:

> it's about gaining attention and it seems like k*kes are ruining everything

The reason I'm posting this is because you mentioned that Sargon was arguing with, and insulting, white supremacists. Which, to those who are unfamiliar with Sargon, is not a claim that captures the nuance of the situation. As I said, this spat was infighting between people who are largely in agreement with the content of each other's bigotry.

[1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XQ87Wf-0rZg

Re: Patreon Bars Anti-Feminist for Racist Speech, Inciting Revolt

#126

Post by zimpenfish »

darkpuma wrote: post #51
fb-denier wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One does not simply use a payment processor directly. Stripe and PayPal both deplatformed within a week the Patreon alternative that the guy went to after being kicked off Patreon (SubscribeStar). Hatreon was also deplatformed by their payment processor, as noted below. In another recent instance, MasterCard demanded that Patreon kick off another person for political reasons [1]. Social network Gab is now accepting U…

> "MasterCard demanded that Patreon kick off another person for political reasons." If true that's disturbing. At a certain point you have to wonder if we're getting close to the spirit of Marsh v. Alabama (e.g the constitutionality of restricting speech in towns that are privately owned by corporations.)

> If true that's disturbing.

"Jihad Watch" seems a fairly obvious hate site.

Re: Patreon Bars Anti-Feminist for Racist Speech, Inciting Revolt

#127

Post by jayd16 »

mancerayder wrote: post #80
jayd16 wrote: post #47

If you've branded yourself as being politically incorrect, isn't this the kind of conflict and publicity you strive to achieve? I'm getting a little tired of people who've made a career saying what you "can't say on TV" and then pretending to be surprised when their content gets pulled.

If you've branded yourself as being politically incorrect, isn't this the kind of conflict and publicity you strive to achieve? I'm getting a little tired of people who've made a career saying what you "can't say on TV" and then pretending to be surprised when their content gets pulled. Wait - how do you know what people's intentions are? Your entire comment is premised on the idea that 'people who've made a career'…

He's quoted in the article as saying his brand is politically incorrect. Its a calculated decision to add shock to his act. This conflict is not something he's trying to avoid to get his ideas out there. Its painfully clear.

The content itself is irrelevant to my point as it is a general statement about adding shock value to any act and the faux-consequences of it.

Re: Patreon Bars Anti-Feminist for Racist Speech, Inciting Revolt

#128

Post by jmalicki »

gnu8 wrote: post #15
misiti3780 wrote: post #3

Am I the only one surprised that Patreon employs 170 people?

I am surprised that the picture in the article is their working environment. Is it really necessary in a tech company that everyone be asses-to-elbows like so?

Those look like pretty standard 48-inch desks comparing to the size of the 27" screens - just like 99% of other workplaces I've seen. Do you know of places where larger desks are remotely common?

Re: Patreon Bars Anti-Feminist for Racist Speech, Inciting Revolt

#129

Post by smelendez »

rabidrat wrote: post #73
iguy wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't know if it's centralisation so much as personification. Patreon wants to be a a friendly brand, part of people's self-image. And having chosen this, perhaps they can't afford to live and let live. It's very difficult to imagine Bell Telephone (in their 100% monopoly days I mean) feeling responsible for what people discuss on their wires, or feeling a need to deny (say) pornographers service so that its other…

Bell Telephone was a peer-to-peer communications infrastructure, not a publishing platform. To the extent that it did provide a medium for publication (the phonebook), they absolutely had standards for what could be published. Were those standards arbitrary? Was the Jewish Defamation League allowed to have their business listed, or advertise?

There were also some restrictions on lines used for broadcasting purposes, where you could dial in to hear a recorded message. This was used by mostly right wing commentators from the '60s-'80s and sometimes derided as "dial-a-hate."

The lines had to announce the subscriber's name and the recordings could be required to be taken down if found defamatory.

When 900 numbers with paid recordings, like messages from celebrities or gambling advice, became available, they had to announce their fee structures upfront before people were connected to the paid programming.

Re: Patreon Bars Anti-Feminist for Racist Speech, Inciting Revolt

#130

Post by Tomte »

orthecreedence wrote: post #33

I'm torn about this. On the one hand, Patreon shouldn't have to do business with people they don't like. On the other hand, at what point do we accept that we have different viewpoints and live and let live? The biggest one for me in recent history was Cloudflare arbitrarily deciding to stop hosting the Daily Stormer. Sure, DS is vile, but at the point we start enforcing censorship on a whim instead of hardened polic…

> Then you see counter-arguments, like "well if you don't want to get banned, don't say bad things!"

That's a very strawman-ish way to discuss matters. I won't deny that a few people think that way, but it is neither the only, nor the strongest counter-argument.

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