Number of babies born in Japan is the lowest since records began • Hacker News Board

Re: Number of babies born in Japan is the lowest since records began

#121

Post by dgut » Sat, Dec 22, 2018, 9:46 PM UTC

InGodsName wrote: post #13

hrktb wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A whole slice of Japanese workers’ have life that squarely fall in “poor and dull”. The overworking cliche is only true to an extent, but still working poor people are plenty and their number rising could arguably be the main factor in the population demographic change. “I don’t make enough money to build a family” is a very prevalent sentiment looking around IRL and on social media, and seems to be corroborated by t…

I don't think it works like that. My overworked friends don't feel that helpless. They can eat out anytime, go to any concert they desire, buy any gadget. They feel secure and safe, they work hard only due to expectation and societal pressure but a few many are self driven And they don't think like ohhh we don't have capacity to have kids. They infact say they can have kids anytime they wish and they aren't missing o…

Sad truth. I feel like this is very generational though. Where I live (Spain) adults and older people are generally very sweet towards kids, they really appreciate the presence of kids. The younger generation already has a much colder/negative (noticeable) attitude towards kids.

Have you thought of why people who have kids create groups? I'm starting to think that it's much like a defensive mechanism, a form of protection.

Re: Number of babies born in Japan is the lowest since records began

#122

Post by codewiz » Sat, Dec 22, 2018, 9:48 PM UTC

sprash wrote: post #60

If the Japanese government wants to do the right thing, all it has to do is to let the population contract even further until Asset prices begin to freefall. Then everything will be affordable again for young Japanese citizens and a good longterm economic outlook for the future is the best thing you can do to stimulate birthrates. If Japan wants to screw it up, it should allow mass immigration. This way asset prices…

Your argument implies that young immigrants will somehow find it affordable to have babies in Japan when Japanese citizens do not. This is perhaps true for skilled workers? But unskilled Japanese workers cannot fill that demand, and without access to a wider pool of skilled labor the Japanese industry will continue to stagnate.

Another factor that you didn't consider is that prices dropping due to economic decline doesn't make life cheaper for people who live in that same economy. Their income is of course linked to demand on the labor market.

And last but not least, population can also drop due to expatriation, which inevitably grows in times of economic decline.

Re: Number of babies born in Japan is the lowest since records began

#123

Post by archagon » Sat, Dec 22, 2018, 10:34 PM UTC

Everybody is posting suggestions on how to improve Japan’s birthrate. It seems to me, however, that this is a problem every country will have to deal with in the medium-term. We can’t keep growing indefinitely, and any system developed with perpetual growth in mind will have to change.

Re: Number of babies born in Japan is the lowest since records began

#124

Post by woodandsteel » Sun, Dec 23, 2018, 12:02 AM UTC

watwut wrote: post #110

asianthrowaway wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not sure to what extent the problem is due to economics and to what extent it's due to culture. I read recently that half of single men in Japan are virgins, which is quite staggering. Lots of Japanese people seem to have simply "dropped out" of the idea of having an intimate relationship, replacing that with video games and pornography. When I lived in Japan, what struck me was how infantile and coddled the whol…

Samurai were meant to be literally all about work with as little emotional tie to familly so that they are ready to die on command. So you know, familly and kiss not being priority might not be shocking outcome of such culture. That being said, why is grown man watching anime about girls something bad? Men were consuming entertainment with girls in it in many cultures ... heterosexual men don't naturally mind watchin…

The problem is it is not females as such they are watching but young teens and children. Japanese men seem to have a fear of adult women who are their psychological equals.

Something else I have read is that traditional Japanese marriage is very oppressive for women, and as new work opportunities have opened up in recent decades a large proportion of women have just decided to stay single. In addition in recent decades there are few jobs for young men that would give them enough income to support a family.

Re: Number of babies born in Japan is the lowest since records began

#125

Post by faissaloo » Sun, Dec 23, 2018, 12:28 AM UTC

saywhatnowman wrote: post #105

faissaloo wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Then things will simply have to change out of necessity, it's really quite simple. You don't seriously think people in 'low-IQ countries' aren't going to develop at astounding rates once the 'high-IQ countries' are gone right? Don't forget that modern western civilization came from the dark ages and modern Islamic civilisation came from the Islamic golden age. These things are cyclical, they come and go, there's real…

> there's really no reason to be panicking. The top comment here is a person who has had the unfortunate experience of realizing that their cultural and genetic family are at high risk of being trimmed away from the tree of life. That's a pretty serious existential dread to swallow. Have some sympathy for them. I mean, if all of humanity were going extinct could we say something like "well, at least there's a good ch…

When all of humanity goes extinct (which is inevitable), I will be more concerned about the method of extinction than the extinction itself. Even the collapse of this reality, while grand is minor in the face of what I believe comes after. I prefer not to make too big a big deal out of the inevitable, at least not until I get there.

Re: Number of babies born in Japan is the lowest since records began

#126

Post by iamnothere » Sun, Dec 23, 2018, 1:48 AM UTC

archagon wrote: post #123

Everybody is posting suggestions on how to improve Japan’s birthrate. It seems to me, however, that this is a problem every country will have to deal with in the medium-term. We can’t keep growing indefinitely, and any system developed with perpetual growth in mind will have to change.

In every discussion about birthrates, this point is raised. And every time, it is ignored, glossed over, or deflected. Overpopulation was briefly a concern in the 1970s, but since then we seem to have forgotten about the problem, at least in the mainstream, media-driven consciousness.

I think there may be something fundamental in the human psyche that refuses to acknowledge that maybe, just maybe, reducing global population growth (or at least freezing it in place) is essential to prevent an eventual catastrophe.

Of course, this is the definition of a self-correcting problem. It's just a shame that it is going to result in so much suffering.

"When all the world is overcharged with inhabitants, then the last remedy of all is war, which provideth for every man, by victory or death." -Thomas Hobbes

Re: Number of babies born in Japan is the lowest since records began

#127

Post by saywhatnowman » Sun, Dec 23, 2018, 3:29 AM UTC

faissaloo wrote: post #125

saywhatnowman wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> there's really no reason to be panicking. The top comment here is a person who has had the unfortunate experience of realizing that their cultural and genetic family are at high risk of being trimmed away from the tree of life. That's a pretty serious existential dread to swallow. Have some sympathy for them. I mean, if all of humanity were going extinct could we say something like "well, at least there's a good ch…

When all of humanity goes extinct (which is inevitable), I will be more concerned about the method of extinction than the extinction itself. Even the collapse of this reality, while grand is minor in the face of what I believe comes after. I prefer not to make too big a big deal out of the inevitable, at least not until I get there.

> Even the collapse of this reality, while grand is minor in the face of what I believe comes after.

What kind of religion are you on, and can I have some?

Re: Number of babies born in Japan is the lowest since records began

#128

Post by irrational » Sun, Dec 23, 2018, 3:36 AM UTC

saywhatnowman wrote: post #102

Latty wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> the native Japanese will eventually cease to exist Uh, what? After a generation, those immigrants will have children who are Japanese. Their native home will be Japan. If your point is about ethnicity, then I don't see what the problem is. It's also ridiculous to suggest that Japanese ethnicity will cease to exist. Sure, you'd see more race mixing, but again, how is that a problem? The US still has native American…

It's very offensive to imply that the Japanese have nothing unique to offer the world other than a passport. In fact it comes off as very hateful and rude. Japan is more than a piece of land, or a group of people who make television programs and video games for you to enjoy. They are many millions of families each with a rich history that the world would be poorer for losing. And yes, if they stop having children or…

I don’t know if this is a good argument. The Sumerians, Etruscans, Olmecs, etc. had a rich history that the world is probably the poorer for losing, but how often do any of us fret about that?

Re: Number of babies born in Japan is the lowest since records began

#129

Post by codewiz » Sun, Dec 23, 2018, 4:02 AM UTC

screye wrote: post #77

sprash wrote: post #60

If the Japanese government wants to do the right thing, all it has to do is to let the population contract even further until Asset prices begin to freefall. Then everything will be affordable again for young Japanese citizens and a good longterm economic outlook for the future is the best thing you can do to stimulate birthrates. If Japan wants to screw it up, it should allow mass immigration. This way asset prices…

In some ways, I can see what you are saying. Japan is in a very different position than Western countries such as the US or Canada. They have a very small % of non mountaneoues land suitable for city building. Add to that their inability to build tall buildings and the huge population, and it is quickly apparent that Japan could do with fewer people in the country. Now the obvious problem of having an aging populatio…

The stereotype of Japan being overcrowded comes from high-density wards in the middle of Tokyo. Everywhere else, there's plenty of unused land. In fact, the government is trying to give away 8 millions of abandoned homes in areas where the population is declining: https://www.thisisinsider.com/japan-program-free-abandoned-h...

While Tokyo keeps growing at the expense of smaller cities and rural areas, a constant supply of new, taller buildings kept prices from skyrocketing like they did in London, New York, and San Francisco. Today, Tokyo doesn't feel like an overcrowded city: public transportation keeps expanding and increasing capacity, traffic jams are exceedingly rare, and the municipality has been hard at work to plant more trees and improve the air quality.

Quality of life is truly excellent here. You can see for yourself by watching some of these excellent videos made by a Canadian national who relocated to Japan 5 years ago with his family: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCqwxJts-6yF33rupyF_DCsA

Re: Number of babies born in Japan is the lowest since records began

#130

Post by saywhatnowman » Sun, Dec 23, 2018, 4:38 AM UTC

irrational wrote: post #128

saywhatnowman wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's very offensive to imply that the Japanese have nothing unique to offer the world other than a passport. In fact it comes off as very hateful and rude. Japan is more than a piece of land, or a group of people who make television programs and video games for you to enjoy. They are many millions of families each with a rich history that the world would be poorer for losing. And yes, if they stop having children or…

I don’t know if this is a good argument. The Sumerians, Etruscans, Olmecs, etc. had a rich history that the world is probably the poorer for losing, but how often do any of us fret about that?

Perhaps, but then again, why shouldn't we care? Don't we care about animal species going extinct?

There is value in preserving various approaches to life. Both at a biological and cultural level. It's a pity to see ways of life stop existing when they could have been spared.