Fintech startup Plaid raises $250M at a $2.65B valuation • Hacker News Board

Re: Fintech startup Plaid raises $250M at a $2.65B valuation

#121

Post by jimbru » Tue, Dec 11, 2018, 10:28 PM UTC

docker_up wrote: post #95

kbyatnal wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And then they left SVB to try again https://treasuryprime.com

Interesting, how is this different from Standard Treasury?

Heyo, cofounder of Treasury Prime here.

The main differences are how we're working with banks. Back then we sold only to large banks, plus banks weren't yet comfortable using cloud services, meaning everything had to be built on-premise (very silly). Now we sell into all sizes of bank because we're able to operate with a SaaS model.

Likewise for developers that means we can move much faster and there's a much better chance we'll be able to find a bank that's a good fit for you. If you're interested in using the API, email me and say hi: hello@treasuryprime.com

Re: Fintech startup Plaid raises $250M at a $2.65B valuation

#122

Post by mmckelvy » Tue, Dec 11, 2018, 11:22 PM UTC

jimbru wrote: post #116

chatmasta wrote: post #29

Plaid is a great idea, but the implementation worries me. My understanding is that, for most banks, you give Plaid your username and password, and Plaid scrapers on their servers log into your online banking account. Even worse, Plaid obfuscates this behavior from users by replicating their banks login window and making it appear that you are logging directly into your bank. I'm not sure how to feel about this, becau…

> I understand that banks' lack of open API access is the central problem Banks in the US are really behind the ball on APIs, it's true. Just recently things have started to change though. I'm the cofounder of Treasury Prime ( https://treasuryprime.com/ ) and we have a network of banks in the US who offer API access. It doesn't solve Plaid's use case (getting data out of 1,000s of banks), but it's great if you need d…

How many banks do you have in your network? Is there a place I can see which institutions you support?

Re: Fintech startup Plaid raises $250M at a $2.65B valuation

#123

Post by root_axis » Tue, Dec 11, 2018, 11:28 PM UTC

astura wrote: post #103

root_axis wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The product is obviously amazing, and I know for a fact that it's creating credit opportunities for consumers with credit history that may not accurately reflect their current financial status, but there is an insidious aspect to the product: the 6 months of future access to transactions and banking information. Most consumers don't realize they're giving this up when they use your product and I believe they would be…

> the 6 months of future access to transactions and banking information. Most consumers don't realize they're giving this up when they use your product and I believe they would be much less likely to use it if they were aware. Can I ask what makes you believe that? Why would someone be A-OK with sharing the previous six months of account transactions but balk at sharing the next six months of account transactions?

Because they have a mental model of what is inside the previous 6 months and can make a judgement regarding whether or not they are comfortable revealing that information, whereas the future 6 months could include purchases that they may not want to reveal for various reasons.

I also think many consumers would simply be creeped out by the idea that these companies can continue to maintain access to their bank statement for 6 months into the future, especially in cases where the consumer has a dispute or negative experience with the company. There are also some underwriting arrangements where companies could leverage future Plaid data to make decisions about how to treat a customer (e.g. monitoring bank balances so that rebilling a delinquent customer can be automatically rescheduled after a deposit)

Re: Fintech startup Plaid raises $250M at a $2.65B valuation

#124

Post by misiti3780 » Tue, Dec 11, 2018, 11:44 PM UTC

jaymzcampbell wrote: post #71

chatmasta wrote: post #29

Plaid is a great idea, but the implementation worries me. My understanding is that, for most banks, you give Plaid your username and password, and Plaid scrapers on their servers log into your online banking account. Even worse, Plaid obfuscates this behavior from users by replicating their banks login window and making it appear that you are logging directly into your bank. I'm not sure how to feel about this, becau…

It always blew my mind that services like Yodlee ( https://www.yodlee.com ) worked that way. I can understand it from the point of view that no traditional bank was set up to allow structured access but it never felt right to me. In the UK there is a big push around "open banking"[1] which will bring this into the 21st century and allow for proper programmatic access to data. It's still in it's infancy but the sector…

mint was built off of yodlee.

Re: Fintech startup Plaid raises $250M at a $2.65B valuation

#125

Post by Bjartr » Wed, Dec 12, 2018, 12:02 AM UTC

kerryfalk wrote: post #100

bdcravens wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It fits 100% in what he's saying. The API grants the developer of the application access to the account history of whoever's logged in. This in no way establishes they are selling anything to any third-parties.

The developer pays for that access. The developer is a third party. They're buying transaction data. It's explicitly stated within their sales page and directly contradictory to the statement he made above.

First, I don't think this is usually what is meant when someone is claiming an entity is selling data. My normal interpretation would be that if a company is "selling my data" then they are selling that data to parties I have zero contact or reason to think they would have my data.

I understand what you're saying, but I think it would be less confusing to keep the idea I described above and what Plaid is doing (AFAIU) distinct.

More specifically I understand it as: If I engage with some entity/company/developer and give them the permission and secrets necessary to access my account, they can pay Plaid to make use of them on my behalf in the process of doing whatever it is I gave them that access for.

This activity is, and always has been to me, completely distinct from the activity of "selling my data", although it could result in the one I authorized to access my data through Plaid turning around and selling my data.

Re: Fintech startup Plaid raises $250M at a $2.65B valuation

#126

Post by wayzel » Wed, Dec 12, 2018, 12:21 AM UTC

chatmasta wrote: post #29

Plaid is a great idea, but the implementation worries me. My understanding is that, for most banks, you give Plaid your username and password, and Plaid scrapers on their servers log into your online banking account. Even worse, Plaid obfuscates this behavior from users by replicating their banks login window and making it appear that you are logging directly into your bank. I'm not sure how to feel about this, becau…

In Europe regulation forced the hands of the banks to API-ify the data and make it accessible. In the US, as with many things, it is left to industry to sort out.

Plaid's implementation was aggressive (screen scraping, etc) but many banks are blocking that now and some, like JPMorgan Chase, have created APIs based on OFX (the industry consortium for secure data exchange) to allow controlled data access.

You, the customer, should always be able to choose which targets get to receive your data. Via OAuth mechanisms you grant them access without sharing your login/pw, and you can revoke at will.

Re: Fintech startup Plaid raises $250M at a $2.65B valuation

#127

Post by ivalm » Wed, Dec 12, 2018, 12:24 AM UTC

siamakfr wrote: post #40

Is the gist of this company logging into a bank's web service using a user's credentials and scraping their account data and exposing that data via APIs to other developers? I thought they actually integrated with the banks on the backend, but if this is all they do, I'm not comfortable using any product that snoops my bank info without any accountability.

Yup, I use Mint, occasionally, but now I am rethinking it. I really thought it was integrated with the bank's api.

Re: Fintech startup Plaid raises $250M at a $2.65B valuation

#128

Post by tothrowaway » Wed, Dec 12, 2018, 12:26 AM UTC

SilasX wrote: post #36

chatmasta wrote: post #29

Plaid is a great idea, but the implementation worries me. My understanding is that, for most banks, you give Plaid your username and password, and Plaid scrapers on their servers log into your online banking account. Even worse, Plaid obfuscates this behavior from users by replicating their banks login window and making it appear that you are logging directly into your bank. I'm not sure how to feel about this, becau…

That ... sounds like it violates every bank's ToS out there, and not the abusive buried-in-fine-print part, either. Every bank could, quite reasonably, cut off your access for this.

When you sign up, you grant the service the limited power of attorney to login as you. Typically a POA needs to be witnessed and/or notarized. I'm not sure how they're getting around that.

Re: Fintech startup Plaid raises $250M at a $2.65B valuation

#129

Post by galvanizer » Wed, Dec 12, 2018, 1:13 AM UTC

bdcravens wrote: post #91

ryanackley wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Here is one discussion from a so-called whistleblower I was involved in. I will let you decide on the ethics[1]. I'm in the ACH space and I personally know a merchant who planned on using them for account verification for point of sale ACH payments. This merchant also planned on grabbing transaction history while they were in there for I don't know what. Analytics maybe? I have no idea if they ever went through with…

This was the merchant, and not Plaid. While Plaid gives such merchants a lot of power, I don't think the ethics issue lies with Plaid (though you could make a good argument that they should grant limited access, and full API access only on a more restricted whitelist basis)

So according to you Facebook is not responsible for Cambridge Analytica scandal.

Re: Fintech startup Plaid raises $250M at a $2.65B valuation

#130

Post by SquishyPanda23 » Wed, Dec 12, 2018, 1:42 AM UTC

ceejayoz wrote: post #105

kerryfalk wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The developer pays for that access. The developer is a third party. They're buying transaction data. It's explicitly stated within their sales page and directly contradictory to the statement he made above.

That's a silly framing. The developer is purchasing the technological infrastructure to deliver the data a single specific user has opted to provide to them. Claiming the developer is a third party is like claiming I'm a third party when I order off Amazon, and that the USPS is the actual customer.

When you enter into a transaction using your bank, someone who is not a party to that transaction can see it, and they pay for that access.

Under any framing, that's a third party paying for access to your transaction data.

The user hasn't opted-in if the co-founder of the company is telling people it doesn't happen. It's only opt-in if the user knows it's happening and agrees to it.