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Lime and Bird are growing rapidly

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Re: Lime and Bird are growing rapidly

#121

Post by sonofaplum »

woah wrote: post #93
sonofaplum wrote: post #47

Full disclosure, I'm anti scooter. People drive them on the sidewalks, leave them in front of my front door, and I genuinely hope that both of these companies, specifically, fail. With that disclosure, was anyone else horrified that the lifespan of these scooters is only 3 months? Are they really removing enough vehicle trips to make these a net positive from an environmental standpoint?

That’s a pretty shortsighted opinion. The big problem here is that our cities are structured so that you have to move several tons of metal around to go more than a few blocks. Being angry about a better alternative instead of the lack of infrastructure is just crotchety.

I put in my disclaimer out of sense of honesty. I'm a bike rider, I don't like cars either. As you can see however, my question is whether electric scooters with a three month lifespan can come out ahead in environmental savings.

Re: Lime and Bird are growing rapidly

#123

Post by jartelt »

smallgovt wrote: post #14

My guess is that Lime and Bird's latest investors don't actually believe in these insane valuations. Instead, they see these companies as a safe place to park their money due to the limited downside provided by liquid preference terms.

A 1x return on a large investment like these would not be good for a venture fund. They probably need to return 3x on the whole fund to get their carry/bonus, so a 3x return for a given investment is the bare minimum for success. They almost certainly would not have made these investments unless they believed they could make a return of >3x.

Re: Lime and Bird are growing rapidly

#124

Post by Thrymr »

justinator wrote: post #104
superfrank wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Personally, I love the scooters and bikes these companies provide and I think you make a really good point about them being a positive disruption. It's pretty clear that there is a growing demand for ways to get around other than driving yourself. Lyft and Uber are great for covering distances, but have their issues. In busy metro areas it can often be quicker to walk than it is to drive if you're only going a mile a…

Privately owning a bike is not cost prohibitive, you know.

The logistics can be challenging, though, especially in an urban area. You need a place to keep and lock up your bike everywhere you go, and [for many people] a way to transport your bike on public transit.

Re: Lime and Bird are growing rapidly

#125

Post by KerrickStaley »

fourmii wrote: post #50

These scooters and scooter companies seem pretty divisive, especially on HN. I understand they're operating in grey areas, I guess kinda like Uber before them, but they are causing (I think) positive disruption. I personally love these scooters. I'm living in Australia now where we don't have them. But last month I took a 3 week road trip from LAX to DC and back so I could hit cities I hadn't been to before. And in m…

Helmet laws for adults tend to reduce riders' willingness to use these services because they create inconvenience. In my opinion people should have the choice of whether or not to wear a helmet.

Personally, I usually wear a helmet, but if I happen to not have mine with me it won't stop me from taking a bike or scooter.

Having good situational awareness of surrounding cars, pedestrians, and other road users as well as stationary obstacles ahead of you provides much more safety than a helmet.

Re: Lime and Bird are growing rapidly

#126

Post by jyrkesh »

cortesoft wrote: post #61
askaboutit wrote: post #7

Stand up scooters feel so unstable. Why not just add a seat and allow a seated scooter that’s foldable. The problem with last mile transport is that the laws in many countries need electric bikes to have peddles and peddle assistance. Just let people have a certain power and max speed and they will drop the car and replace it with a powered scooter. Aka, China.

> Just let people have a certain power and max speed and they will drop the car and replace it with a powered scooter I think many Americans have a higher expectations for safety than many people in China. No way I am packing my kid onto a scooter and driving them around downtown.

Why stop at comparisons to China? Parents have no problem doing this across Europe too, with both bikes and Vespa-style scooters.

I.e. to me, the problem is the US mentality towards car-minded transportation infrastructure, not the expectation of safety in a given culture.

Re: Lime and Bird are growing rapidly

#127

Post by jeffwass »

Relys wrote: post #110
pfisch wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"don't directly use fossil fuels" Looks like Maryland uses a significant amount of coal to power their grid, so is this even a good thing?

Yes, because in the long term electric vehicles consolidate fossil fuel emissions to a single large point (coal in this case) which can be eventually replaced with a clean energy source (i.e. solar, wind, hydro, nuclear, etc.).

Additionally, the emissions of that consolidated power plant can be better filtered (eg particulates) than the corresponding thousands of disparate engines.

Re: Lime and Bird are growing rapidly

#128

Post by paulddraper »

pfisch wrote: post #90
Uehreka wrote: post #27

I live in Baltimore and these things have been awesome. Over the summer and early fall, I used them a lot for trips that were between 3-15 blocks. They were usually less than half the price of a Lyft, were fun to drive, don't directly use fossil fuels and were usually available (in one app or the other) within a block or two of my house. I used them to meet friends for brunch, to pick up my car from getting worked on…

"don't directly use fossil fuels" Looks like Maryland uses a significant amount of coal to power their grid, so is this even a good thing?

Even so, this is still a win.

1. Scooters use far less energy than larger vehicles.

2. Generating energy from fossil fuels can be done more efficiently at a power plant than in a small engine.

3. When power generation is centralized, it is easier to substitute it for better, more efficient forms in the future.

Re: Lime and Bird are growing rapidly

#129

Post by randyrand »

pfisch wrote: post #90
Uehreka wrote: post #27

I live in Baltimore and these things have been awesome. Over the summer and early fall, I used them a lot for trips that were between 3-15 blocks. They were usually less than half the price of a Lyft, were fun to drive, don't directly use fossil fuels and were usually available (in one app or the other) within a block or two of my house. I used them to meet friends for brunch, to pick up my car from getting worked on…

"don't directly use fossil fuels" Looks like Maryland uses a significant amount of coal to power their grid, so is this even a good thing?

My scooter goes 35 miles on 12 cents of electricity.

Re: Lime and Bird are growing rapidly

#130

Post by wilg »

pfisch wrote: post #90
Uehreka wrote: post #27

I live in Baltimore and these things have been awesome. Over the summer and early fall, I used them a lot for trips that were between 3-15 blocks. They were usually less than half the price of a Lyft, were fun to drive, don't directly use fossil fuels and were usually available (in one app or the other) within a block or two of my house. I used them to meet friends for brunch, to pick up my car from getting worked on…

"don't directly use fossil fuels" Looks like Maryland uses a significant amount of coal to power their grid, so is this even a good thing?

In computer science, we call this an "interface". Users can use energy without having to know it is generated, allowing the backend to be upgraded to a more efficient power source without users doing anything.

Also, the argument you're making here is called "the long tailpipe" and has been debunked – it's still a win even if the grid has dirty energy because of efficiency gains.

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