Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

‘12 Monkeys’: Why Terry Gilliam’s Movie Is Relevant Today

vulture.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

121–130 of 130 posts

Re: ‘12 Monkeys’: Why Terry Gilliam’s Movie Is Relevant Today

#121

Post by [deleted] »

yesenadam wrote: post #90
cf498 wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nuclear holocaust would have been caused and was prevented by just a few people. It would have been an action with a direct result. We could and did also just stop with the nonsense. We dont have that option for climate change. We have a worsening situation and no realistic option to stop or even reverse things. Differently put, nuclear holocaust was a threat, climate change an active process.

we faced the very real threat of nuclear annihilation at any moment. It's terrifying how close we came nuclear holocaust was a threat I don't understand why these days people talk and act as if there's no risk of nuclear catastrophe. The effect of that seems to me incomparably worse than global warming. Yet no-one seems to talk about it anymore. I read on HN sometimes people saying they won't have kids because global…

[deleted]

Re: ‘12 Monkeys’: Why Terry Gilliam’s Movie Is Relevant Today

#122

Post by XorNot »

pixl97 wrote: post #67
ewhanley wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can only speak to the minerals extraction industry (oil & gas, specifically), but they (we) are well aware that hydrocarbons are a finite resource. The industry as a whole is arguably short sighted, but it’s not because they think the supply of oil is endless.

Really a bigger issue is that huge amounts of hydrocarbons still exist to be tapped. Which then get turned into atmospheric CO2.

Coal is particularly problematic. Oil may peak soon... Australia alone has like 400 years worth of coal in known reserves alone. We won't run out of it anytime soon - we absolutely should not dig it all up and burn it though.

Re: ‘12 Monkeys’: Why Terry Gilliam’s Movie Is Relevant Today

#123

Post by XorNot »

dorgo wrote: post #112
kiliantics wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Historically speaking, this is the greatest time on earth to be alive. This feels a little unsubstantiated. Wealth inequality has never been higher than it is today. Species extinction rates have never been higher than today. There are plenty of good reasons to be skeptical about the future.

>Wealth inequality has never been higher than it is today Wealth increased to an extent that inequality little matters. If homeless beggars have smartphones with access to unlimited knowledge, enough to eat and access to medical treatment superior to everything before, how do they compare to the kings of the past?

Beggars may have smart phones but they still don't have a sanitary place to defecate or stable access to food.

When the beggars have indoor plumbing, refrigerators, and food we can discuss whether having a smartphone means inequality is not a problem.

Re: ‘12 Monkeys’: Why Terry Gilliam’s Movie Is Relevant Today

#124

Post by DennisP »

nonbel wrote: post #115
DennisP wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

IPCC's business-as-usual scenario presents a range. You were correct that 4C is about the median but 6.4C is the upper end: https://www.ipcc.ch/publications_and_data/ar4/wg1/en/spmsspm... That's by the end of the century, not the highest it will ever go. And honestly, I hope you're not going to base your views on what links a couple jokers on HN have handy. Read books with real references or by actual scientists. We…

> "6.4C is the upper end" Upper end is going to be defined arbitrarily, but either way its still less than the 7 degrees and 11-12 degrees considered in the primary source. > "Read books with real references or by actual scientists" Books are going to be secondary sources, no one really puts primary research into them and hasn't for about a century. The primary research is almost all available online.

Yes but books sum up a large amount of research and give you references to it. That's a way better start than cherrypicking a few studies online.

Re: ‘12 Monkeys’: Why Terry Gilliam’s Movie Is Relevant Today

#125

Post by DennisP »

platz wrote: post #114
DennisP wrote: post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't know about you but my current level covers a lot more than my basic bodily needs. I'd love to trade any future wealth increases for a healthy planet.

So you're saying this is a tragedy of the commons, principal-agent scenario then? You will continue to accumulate unless everyone else stops accumulating.

Absolutely it's a tragedy of the commons. That's why it's such a hard problem to solve.

But one way we often solve these problems is with taxes. We pay for all sorts of public goods with taxes and it works pretty well. So I completely support a high tax on carbon, even if it significantly impacts my personal wealth.

Re: ‘12 Monkeys’: Why Terry Gilliam’s Movie Is Relevant Today

#126

Post by okonomiyaki3000 »

Cyph0n wrote: post #9

If you’re interested in a more in-depth look at the 12 Monkeys universe, check out the excellent TV series of the same title.

Lol, no. The TV series has nothing to do withe movie other than the basic premise. It throws the best thing about the movie right out the window immediately.

Re: ‘12 Monkeys’: Why Terry Gilliam’s Movie Is Relevant Today

#127

Post by kiliantics »

platz wrote: post #114
DennisP wrote: post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't know about you but my current level covers a lot more than my basic bodily needs. I'd love to trade any future wealth increases for a healthy planet.

So you're saying this is a tragedy of the commons, principal-agent scenario then? You will continue to accumulate unless everyone else stops accumulating.

I think that's overly simplistic. There are systemic forces beyond our individual control that pretty much force us to consume at irresponsibly unsustainable rates. Planned obsolescence is an obvious one when it comes to technology products. Fast fashion is another.

There are also many ways in which artificial scarcity forces us to consume more than we otherwise would. If things like handtools were "common" property, then not everyone would have to buy a hammer or drill for each house which they then only use once or twice a year. There are many ways this could be different but they are just not profitable so our current system won't allow it. In the past, for instance, even things like ovens were common property, fired up once a week for everyone in the community to bake their loaves in.

Re: ‘12 Monkeys’: Why Terry Gilliam’s Movie Is Relevant Today

#128

Post by Cyph0n »

okonomiyaki3000 wrote: post #126
Cyph0n wrote: post #9

If you’re interested in a more in-depth look at the 12 Monkeys universe, check out the excellent TV series of the same title.

Lol, no. The TV series has nothing to do withe movie other than the basic premise. It throws the best thing about the movie right out the window immediately.

Did you watch the entire series? See my reply to a similar claim below.

And what “best part” are you referring to, exactly?

Re: ‘12 Monkeys’: Why Terry Gilliam’s Movie Is Relevant Today

#129

Post by nonbel »

DennisP wrote: post #124
nonbel wrote: post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> "6.4C is the upper end" Upper end is going to be defined arbitrarily, but either way its still less than the 7 degrees and 11-12 degrees considered in the primary source. > "Read books with real references or by actual scientists" Books are going to be secondary sources, no one really puts primary research into them and hasn't for about a century. The primary research is almost all available online.

Yes but books sum up a large amount of research and give you references to it. That's a way better start than cherrypicking a few studies online.

Why would there be any cherry picking? There are a number of people in this thread (and also many downvoters) who apparently believe very strongly about this stuff.

Why can't they point me to the exact evidence that convinced them? And while you are one of the better ones "the references are somewhere in this one book" is not very helpful. People are busy, you need to make it as easy as possible for them if you actually care about convincing them.

Re: ‘12 Monkeys’: Why Terry Gilliam’s Movie Is Relevant Today

#130

Post by tokyodude »

eternalban wrote: post #72
tokyodude wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Did you watch some alternate edit? Love conquers nothing in the film.

Cole has no reason to seek Railly on his second time jump. He seeks her because he is in love with her. Railly also makes decisions contrary to cold reason and sticks with Cole. Don't forget, they had sent multiple agents back in time. None had succeeded. The romantic relationship is a key element of the narrative.

I guess that's not what I got out of it. He sought to get back to 1996 because she convinced him the rest of his experience in the future was an delusion.

Railly has experiences that challenge her idea of reality. At first she believes Cole is insane but then experiences evidence that he's not. Now believing the plague Cole mentioned is coming she really has no one else.

Post reply on HN