Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Ford Buying San Francisco-Area E-Scooter Startup Spin

nytimes.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

121–130 of 328 posts

Re: Ford Buying San Francisco-Area E-Scooter Startup Spin

#121

Post by chaoticmass »

danans wrote: post #2

These e-scooters could be a really great way for many cities to decrease short-haul car dependency, but they really need to be off the sidewalks. A motor-propelled machine going 15 mph doesn't belong on the same surface as a baby stroller, a senior citizen, or a person with a disability. They belong in the bike lane (which should exist in the first place), and their speed should be capped in areas of dense foot traff…

In Dallas (and elsewhere I imagine) we're supposed to use them on the street, and most people have been learning this. First time I rode one on the sidewalk I barely got down one block before people in cars were telling me to get off the sidewalk. Once on the street I had no trouble sharing the road with other cars, though this was downtown where the speed limit is lower. The scooters seem to have been a little more warmly accepted than the bikes, where parked bikes which take up more space were clogging up sidewalks.

This summer when I was in San Diego for a half marathon I was standing on the sidewalk waiting when out of nowhere a scooter rider was crossing the street, hit the sidewalk curb, which was higher than they expected, and endo'ed right next to me. It was almost like the latest South Park episode. The scooters can be tricky to ride for new people, are fast, and really should only be used while wearing a helmet.

Re: Ford Buying San Francisco-Area E-Scooter Startup Spin

#122

Post by mygo »

TylerE wrote: post #98
mygo wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I've been seeing cyclist blow through stop signs for 30 years. One reason cyclists don’t stop at stop signs is because it’s the biggest energy drain to have to come to a full stop, killing all momentum, and then pick up speed again from zero. If a cyclist approaching a stop sign sees that there is no traffic, and it’s not even a busy street, then that cyclist will likely just keep going. I’m not saying whether that…

Well, why can't a car do the same thing? Replace all the stop signs with yield signs.

I don't know, ask the cyclists. I'm not their advocate lol.

Re: Ford Buying San Francisco-Area E-Scooter Startup Spin

#123

Post by enraged_camel »

imgabe wrote: post #48
komali2 wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> because cyclists are weird and it's okay to tell them to just ride in amongst trucks travelling 40mph. This is unsustainable. It's caused blowback from cyclists. "Fine, you want me to play in traffic, I'm going to start doing some dumb shit." I say this as a cyclist, I'm doing only 5 miles round trip but I do it every day. I see people blow red lights, weaving in and out of traffic, hopping onto the sidewalk, blast…

I also bike. Don't give me a bike lane? That's fine, I'll take the middle of the traffic lane. Honk all you like, I'm not going to give you room to try and squeeze between me and the oncoming traffic while I risk getting doored. Cars can wait.

I hate to break it to you, but you aren't exactly playing this game from a position of power. If an accident occurs, you will be the one seriously injured or worse.

Re: Ford Buying San Francisco-Area E-Scooter Startup Spin

#124

Post by gamblor956 »

komali2 wrote: post #57
repsilat wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This might be one of those San Francisco problems. In most places a combination of law enforcement and peer shaming would discourage cyclists from breaking the law. Cracking down on law-breaking cyclists in SF would "send the wrong message" though, and the local culture trends more towards self-regard than self-awareness.

I'm not sure I agree - I've never lived in an American city where cyclists didn't blow through reds. I hear it's the norm (though still illegal) in the UK as well.

It used to happen a lot in LA as well, until they started building out bike lanes and ticketing cyclists for traffic violations like running red lights. It still happens, but way less now than it used.

That, and a lot of the more reckless cyclists ended up donating their organs...

Re: Ford Buying San Francisco-Area E-Scooter Startup Spin

#125

Post by ghaff »

sudosteph wrote: post #15
danans wrote: post #2

These e-scooters could be a really great way for many cities to decrease short-haul car dependency, but they really need to be off the sidewalks. A motor-propelled machine going 15 mph doesn't belong on the same surface as a baby stroller, a senior citizen, or a person with a disability. They belong in the bike lane (which should exist in the first place), and their speed should be capped in areas of dense foot traff…

I think it does depend on the city though. I'm really excited to try these out next time I'm in Charlotte or Raleigh. The sidewalk network in those places tends to be pretty lacking in the first place, and as a result, there are only a few spots with anything close to dense foot traffic on sidewalks. It's also usually a pretty long walk to anywhere due to everything being built at car-scale. If anything, I'm hopeful…

I don't know about the sidewalk network being lacking in Raleigh although I admittedly tend to stay within a fairly small area. Many of the sidewalks are wide and don't have a huge amount of foot traffic. The roads tend not to be too congested either in the city core.

That said, I think it took about 4 hours from my arrival a few weeks back to nearly being run down from behind on one of the streets with a narrower sidewalk. A lot of riders definitely weave around people and generally expect walkers to get out of their way.

On the plus side there weren't a lot of parked e-scooters blocking sidewalks but there were some and I saw even more in Atlanta this past week. Not enough to be a meaningful problem for pedestrians but certainly for anyone in a wheelchair or mobility scooter.

Re: Ford Buying San Francisco-Area E-Scooter Startup Spin

#126

Post by basilgohar »

samstave wrote: post #96
komali2 wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The issue with this is that, on my motorcycle, I nearly take out (especially on left turns) bicyclists blowing through reds that don't see me. I can't stop midturn without high risk of going down and taking out the cyclist (and pedestrians) with my sliding motorcycle, it's a risky situation all around. The laws like "just stop at red" don't care about your perceptive ability, they care about everyone's perceptive abi…

I don't disagree with you, and as you clerly point out - its not a level playing field. I just cant agree with saying that the lowest common denominator is correct in all cases, and thus, people should have personal responsibility for personal risk, and thats just how the world needs to be. Shaking fists be damned.

I'm inclined to be sympathetic to cyclists, however, I strongly disagree with you. When people get to choose which of the rules they get to follow, they always choose the rules that benefit themselves without regards to those of others.

Cyclists aren't only putting themselves at risk, they are putting others as well, as is the case with anyone operating a vehicle. A cyclist choosing to ignore traffic rules can indirectly cause someone who expected them to follow those rules to take an action that greatly amplifies the risk of that cyclists' own decisions.

The fact that cities are not designed well for traffic that is not traditional vehicular should not be an excuse for people to put themselves and others in greater danger.

Re: Ford Buying San Francisco-Area E-Scooter Startup Spin

#127

Post by keerthiko »

abrichr wrote: post #31
notatoad wrote: post #22

>They belong in the bike lane (which should exist in the first place) the problem is the existence of bike lanes. If public officials start saying "scooters belong in the bike lane", then they have to confront the fact that their cities have no cohesive network of bike lanes that can actually support a real journey. This has been acceptable up until now, because cyclists are weird and it's okay to tell them to just r…

> cyclists are weird ... e-scooters are for "normal people" Could you please elaborate on this? Why do you think so (or why do you think that is a widely held belief)? If anything I would have thought that it was the opposite.

It's just a paraphrasing of the automobile-centric nature of American demographic perception. "Normal people" in America have cars, use the traffic lanes, drive everywhere, and you're a weird millennial fitness freak (or socialist NUMTOT) if you don't own an automobile. An E-scooter is more an automobile than a bike, and thus is for "normal people" rather than for cyclists.

Re: Ford Buying San Francisco-Area E-Scooter Startup Spin

#128

Post by notyourwork »

notatoad wrote: post #22

>They belong in the bike lane (which should exist in the first place) the problem is the existence of bike lanes. If public officials start saying "scooters belong in the bike lane", then they have to confront the fact that their cities have no cohesive network of bike lanes that can actually support a real journey. This has been acceptable up until now, because cyclists are weird and it's okay to tell them to just r…

As a cyclist this is well said. I’ve learned to accept it but try to avoid it. My wife (not a cyclist) wouldn’t dare right one in traffic.

Re: Ford Buying San Francisco-Area E-Scooter Startup Spin

#129

Post by [deleted] »

sonnyblarney wrote: post #51
floatrock wrote: post #29

What you're seeing is car companies trying to transition to "mobility" companies -- the difference being the former is a manufacturing company with 3% margins and the latter being a services company with much fatter margins. Autonomous car fleets are the main "mobility services" prize of course -- all the major OEMs have autonomous research labs -- but you're seeing more interest in scooters and bikes (there was a he…

No, I don't think this is a transition. What we're likely seeing is M&A people caught up in the hype and trends. In some ways, it's worth spending some amount as a hedge against something happening, but I don't believe these scooters will represent any meaningful change ... personally I think they are kind of a fad. The logistics, cost, narrow use cases of all of it just don't work out well enough. Truly - what % of…

[deleted]

Re: Ford Buying San Francisco-Area E-Scooter Startup Spin

#130

Post by notyourwork »

imgabe wrote: post #48
komali2 wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> because cyclists are weird and it's okay to tell them to just ride in amongst trucks travelling 40mph. This is unsustainable. It's caused blowback from cyclists. "Fine, you want me to play in traffic, I'm going to start doing some dumb shit." I say this as a cyclist, I'm doing only 5 miles round trip but I do it every day. I see people blow red lights, weaving in and out of traffic, hopping onto the sidewalk, blast…

I also bike. Don't give me a bike lane? That's fine, I'll take the middle of the traffic lane. Honk all you like, I'm not going to give you room to try and squeeze between me and the oncoming traffic while I risk getting doored. Cars can wait.

100% agree, if you don’t take the lane and ride on side of it cars try to pass far to close for comfort or safety. The middle means I’m claiming this lane please pass on left.
Post reply on HN