Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Millennial Men Leave Perplexing Hole in Hot U.S. Job Market

bloomberg.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

121–130 of 156 posts

Re: Millennial Men Leave Perplexing Hole in Hot U.S. Job Market

#121

Post by JoeAltmaier »

gwright wrote: post #118
dleslie wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Indeed; they're either unwilling to pay the market rate for the labour _or_ they are unwilling to train. Any time an employer states that they cannot find a _suitable_ candidate for a position it is an admission that they are unwilling to train.

I think you are excluding other scenarios: A business may not be able to pay minimum wage and training costs. The solution there is more qualified people (but they take better paying jobs), lower wage (legally impossible), pass increases on to consumers (higher wages paired with higher costs). Wage increases can't magically be absorbed, especially in service industries with plenty of substitutes. Customers will just…

Yes all this. My mother-in-law lived through the institution of minimum wage in America. She saw many people lose their part-time jobs because of it. Initially it was a big upset.

Re: Millennial Men Leave Perplexing Hole in Hot U.S. Job Market

#122

Post by lordnacho »

peterburkimsher wrote: post #102
lordnacho wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What do you want to do as a job? What do the people who have this job have on their CVs? Have you found people on LinkedIn who hire for what you want to do? Also recruiters are a dead end for everyone who isn't already a very close match for a job that's going. It's incredibly frustrating for everyone, but that's their incentive structure. And what do you mean Apple II? Isn't that ancient?

I'll take anything as a job now. I can get my own Working Holiday visa. But I've been turned down by farms and construction companies, not only tech companies. I don't know how to find people on LinkedIn, but I created a new account just to spam that way. I'll keep trying to add lots of strangers and hope I find a friendly one. Yes, I used an Apple II with ADTPro to migrate data off lots of old 5.25" floppies for arc…

Well you're closer to it than I am, but I would think there's no viable business migrating data off a decades old platform. You'd definitely have to find the right niche community to get any business at all.

> I'll take anything as a job now. I can get my own Working Holiday visa. But I've been turned down by farms and construction companies, not only tech companies.

The problem with this approach is that businesses are after specific skills. Except for minimum wage roles, which are going to be awkward for a guy with a degree. Basically, if I was a hiring manager at a restaurant I would assume you would be looking for something better almost immediately.

So assuming you can't get a fast food or farmhand job, you need to be presenting some useful skill.

I had a look at your CV.

- Those logos, what are they? Did you work there? Did you build those sites?

- When I'm looking at SWE CVs, I have about a minute to form an opinion. First, I look for relevant techs. You have some, but the easiest CVs to scan have a block at the top: C++, Kubernetes, Linux, React, JS, and so on. I might not even look at the rest of the CV if I'm looking for a C++ dev and it doesn't stick out immediately, even if it's in there further down. Looking at your CV, there's a bunch of reasonably current techs like TensorFlow, but I only saw that the 3rd time I had a look.

- You did pretty well at your IB, and you did pretty well in your degrees. You were obviously a conscientious student.

- You've got some really interesting skills under your personal interests. Stick them in the skills block.

No reason why someone wouldn't decide to interview you. What happens when you apply to Google/FB/etc?

Re: Millennial Men Leave Perplexing Hole in Hot U.S. Job Market

#123

Post by woodpanel »

lordnacho wrote: post #94
ben_jones wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm looking at a $400 bill after insurance for a 15 minute doctor's visit. Nothing fancy he took my blood pressure and listened to my lungs and sent me on my way. I'm fortunate that I can easily pay this, but what if I was living paycheck to paycheck? It would crush me. When wealth is so fleeting as to be taken away by such a minuscule stroke of bad luck, why would people bother chasing it? I'm literally going to hav…

I think what you're getting at, and several others, is that every opportunity has been squeezed out. - Go to college? Get massive debt, insecure about losing whatever job you get after. Lots of other people have paper too. Oh and they also want to live near where degree jobs are, just like you. - Start in the mail room? They don't promote from the mail room anymore. - Work minimum wage? Everything costs what it needs…

-> Learn a trade? ... you have to get used to being looked down on.

What is even more striking about that is that among many economists and policy makers trade-schools are seen as a good recipe, last and maybe only hope to counter the effects of graduate-inflation. But yet, what parents make that bold move and tell their kids to cancel their Ivy League dreams and instead become a welder?

It is one of those moments that lay bare what prohibits us from progress: The solution is already there, is affordable and doable for most individuals. Plus approved by all the smartest people. Yet nobody seems willing to go that way, including all of the smartest people.

Re: Millennial Men Leave Perplexing Hole in Hot U.S. Job Market

#124

Post by sli »

geezerjay wrote: post #93
ravenstine wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or minimalism, which is becoming a trendy topic on places like YouTube for that reason.

> Or minimalism No, not really. Economic constrains are the real issue. It makes no difference if a person decides to live spending less if he is never constrained by what he can afford. On the other hand, if someone needs something (say medical care) but can't afford it then there's a problem.

Minimalism doesn't really buy you a whole lot when just rent is already half of your paycheck, anyway. There likely just isn't much left to cut. The things I already own don't add to my cost of living, I already own them.

Re: Millennial Men Leave Perplexing Hole in Hot U.S. Job Market

#125

Post by shagie »

fatnoah wrote: post #99
shagie wrote: post #82

The part that made me wonder about the millennials in their job search is: > Butcher has a high-school diploma and a resume filled with low-wage jobs from Target and Walmart to a local grocery store. He’s being selective as he searches for new work because he doesn’t want to grind out unhappy hours for unsatisfying compensation. I believe that having a job that you love is a luxury. It is something to look at once ba…

>He’s being selective as he searches for new work because he doesn’t want to grind out unhappy hours for unsatisfying compensation. I think this is a large part of the issue here. I only have my experience employing millenials to go by, but they're a group that seems to be less focused on compensation and career advancement than generations before them. They're version of the American Dream is also different than gen…

Judging by various new grad looking for a job forums for CS that I've seen (and yes, that is self selecting to a particular set), it is either someone hyper focused on compensation (has sent out 1000 applications... 100 to each of the top 10 tech companies, looking for a job that pays significant six figures for a new grad) or is looking for a place where they will feel needed and can change the world.

I've seen the "I've been looking for a job for six months and a recruiter contacted me about a position at {finance, defense, public sector, back office retail}, but I turned them down because I don't want to work in that industry."

Sometimes its a "you keep saying that you're looking for a job, but you aren't applying where there are openings."

I've worked big tech before the layoffs in '09. Since then I've worked back office retail, GIS logistics and now public sector... I won't say that any of them are jobs that I would say that I love (they aren't the dream job), but I am able to find meaning in them and enjoy the work that I do because there are hard problems to solve. When I was looking for a job, I took my time picking, but I didn't say "no" when they had an offer and I was unemployed.

One of the things that the line that I mentioned above...

> Butcher has a high-school diploma and a resume filled with low-wage jobs from Target and Walmart to a local grocery store. He’s being selective as he searches for new work because he doesn’t want to grind out unhappy hours for unsatisfying compensation.

Switching jobs every few months trying to find one that is satisfying means that the next employer isn't going to invest as much to train that person and isn't as likely to chose that person for promotion to those higher paying jobs within the company.

One may claim that they value their (in this case just a high school diploma job) at $40/h, but if they can't produce $20/h of value for the company, well, they're not going to get hired at $40/h.

Follow your passion (that seems to be something many millennials have as their version of the American Dream sounds great... but really should be "Find the hard work you're willing to do" (see http://www.cs.uni.edu/~wallingf/blog/archives/monthly/2018-1... )

Re: Millennial Men Leave Perplexing Hole in Hot U.S. Job Market

#126

Post by peterburkimsher »

Alex63 wrote: post #116
peterburkimsher wrote: post #63

I'm a 29 year old male. I've been trying to get a new job since March, and I've been unemployed since August. I have an MEng in Electronic Systems Engineering, and over 3 years continuous relevant work experience. I have tried applying through Seek and TradeMe, and got no response. I tried writing custom cover letters and applying on company websites. I've rewritten my résumé several times based on contradictory advi…

I looked at the résumé linked from your profile, too. I agree with ac29, plus the following suggestions: * Remove all the logos/links. They're not helping the first impression, and they'll almost certainly confuse the systems that are used to scan/store your résumé. * Take out the reference to military technology in your objective. If you get an interview you can ask them if they do military work and explain your res…

The problem is not the résumé. The problem is that nobody is receiving it. I have 3 résumés and I'll make another according to your guidelines. I want only one thing from you.

Email addresses. Please tell me somebody who can give me a job if I do this right. I need somebody who can help. Not somebody who will complain. Somebody who cares. Somebody who can give me food and shelter, a minimum wage. Anything.

Re: Millennial Men Leave Perplexing Hole in Hot U.S. Job Market

#127

Post by peterburkimsher »

lordnacho wrote: post #122
peterburkimsher wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'll take anything as a job now. I can get my own Working Holiday visa. But I've been turned down by farms and construction companies, not only tech companies. I don't know how to find people on LinkedIn, but I created a new account just to spam that way. I'll keep trying to add lots of strangers and hope I find a friendly one. Yes, I used an Apple II with ADTPro to migrate data off lots of old 5.25" floppies for arc…

Well you're closer to it than I am, but I would think there's no viable business migrating data off a decades old platform. You'd definitely have to find the right niche community to get any business at all. > I'll take anything as a job now. I can get my own Working Holiday visa. But I've been turned down by farms and construction companies, not only tech companies. The problem with this approach is that businesses…

I'll take a fast food or farmhand job! But I need an email address of somebody who can give me that job.

If you tell me the email address of somebody who can offer me food and shelter, I'll rewrite my résumé for them. But I need to know that there is somebody who cares if I do that. Because I've had a lot of résumé advice that was just complaining, and didn't lead to a job. I need a job, an introduction, an interview. At least a rejection letter! I don't need a choice of 20 résumés, I already have 3.

Re: Millennial Men Leave Perplexing Hole in Hot U.S. Job Market

#128

Post by DoreenMichele »

peterburkimsher wrote: post #63

I'm a 29 year old male. I've been trying to get a new job since March, and I've been unemployed since August. I have an MEng in Electronic Systems Engineering, and over 3 years continuous relevant work experience. I have tried applying through Seek and TradeMe, and got no response. I tried writing custom cover letters and applying on company websites. I've rewritten my résumé several times based on contradictory advi…

If you are willing to consider gig work:

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1JfNAbUX_lN9K3MCNHO15...

Re: Millennial Men Leave Perplexing Hole in Hot U.S. Job Market

#129

Post by dleslie »

gwright wrote: post #118
dleslie wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Indeed; they're either unwilling to pay the market rate for the labour _or_ they are unwilling to train. Any time an employer states that they cannot find a _suitable_ candidate for a position it is an admission that they are unwilling to train.

I think you are excluding other scenarios: A business may not be able to pay minimum wage and training costs. The solution there is more qualified people (but they take better paying jobs), lower wage (legally impossible), pass increases on to consumers (higher wages paired with higher costs). Wage increases can't magically be absorbed, especially in service industries with plenty of substitutes. Customers will just…

You gave many reasons why an employer may be unwilling, but it's the same outcome regardless: an unwillingness to train or pay more.

Re: Millennial Men Leave Perplexing Hole in Hot U.S. Job Market

#130

Post by dorchadas »

woodpanel wrote: post #123
lordnacho wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think what you're getting at, and several others, is that every opportunity has been squeezed out. - Go to college? Get massive debt, insecure about losing whatever job you get after. Lots of other people have paper too. Oh and they also want to live near where degree jobs are, just like you. - Start in the mail room? They don't promote from the mail room anymore. - Work minimum wage? Everything costs what it needs…

-> Learn a trade? ... you have to get used to being looked down on. What is even more striking about that is that among many economists and policy makers trade-schools are seen as a good recipe, last and maybe only hope to counter the effects of graduate-inflation. But yet, what parents make that bold move and tell their kids to cancel their Ivy League dreams and instead become a welder? It is one of those moments th…

Maybe it's different because I live in a rural area, but a lot of my students want to go into welding or mechanics, etc. They know they can make a good living, and some of the more ambitious want to do underwater welding or work on airplanes (and one even has an "in" through his father, who does that) and retire early, or just live large.

But, overall, I do agree with your points. What I mostly see in high school here is kids who don't have a fucking clue what they want to do. To be honest, I'm 26 and I'm not sure if I know what I want to do either. I think a lot of the issue is that we force kids to make decisions impacting the rest of their lives before they've ever had a chance to really find their passions and such.

I hate our culture.

Post reply on HN