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Impostor syndrome strikes men just as hard as women in technical interviews

blog.interviewing.io

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Re: Impostor syndrome strikes men just as hard as women in technical interviews

#121

Post by vonmoltke »

fhbdukfrh wrote: post #111
twoquestions wrote: post #11

It doesn't help that job ads are wanting "Top 3% only!" or "Only top 1% Ninja Rockstars need apply!". Kind of reminds me of the market for singers or concert pianists, you absolutely need to be the best, even imperceptibly worse makes you unemployable. Should those of us who aren't top 5%/didn't go to a top school just find another industry, one where sub-perfect work doesn't actively make other people's jobs harder?

Once you have your first job, the top 80% are rarely ever again actively looking unless they have some sort of extenuating circumstances, so the reality is they're only going to hire the to 1% of the bottom 20% The top 5, 10, 20 out even 50% rarely hit the open market, inbound recruitment process. They get poached or go where former coworkers are

Am I really that much of an aberration in this industry? I definitely consider myself in the top 50%, and I'm probably in the top 20%. In 16 years I am only on my fourth company, have only been "poached" once (and I was trying to get poached), and can count on two hands the number of former coworkers who are not either retired or still at the companies I left them at.

Of course, I spent the first 14 of those years in Dallas and the first 9.5 of those at a poor choice of company. I spent years having applications ignored. I sometimes wonder if thinking like this had something to do with that.

Re: Impostor syndrome strikes men just as hard as women in technical interviews

#122

Post by vonmoltke »

cynicalkane wrote: post #20
EddieRingle wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The appropriate response is to ask for a top-1% salary, of course.

Nowdays a senior role at FAANG will often pay a top 1% salary, and salary growth at these companies shows no signs of stopping.

How senior? Obviously not at the seniority I was just offered by Google (and rejected).

Re: Impostor syndrome strikes men just as hard as women in technical interviews

#123

Post by RugnirViking »

geggam wrote: post #106
corodra wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That was it! I think that's what I heard back in the day. It just sucks that kids these days are judging themselves off these bullshit advertisements. Now they're getting mental issues where they don't have a good self-image in their skill sets. Jesus...it's like the fashion industry for young girls...

How is that different from the past ?

Depends on how far you go back - it wasn't that long ago in the grand scheme of things that in most places/industries there was no reliable way to get information about job listings - your best bet was to go to a recruiter or go directly to the front desk and ask about vacancies

Re: Impostor syndrome strikes men just as hard as women in technical interviews

#124

Post by leeny »

daenz wrote: post #107

It makes me thrilled to see that we're finally talking about data around gender issues, regardless of what that data actually says. It seems like we're finally getting over the taboo and we're mature enough to look at facts.

If you liked this post, you might also like this one: http://blog.interviewing.io/we-built-voice-modulation-to-mas...

TL;DR We made women sound like men and men sound like women in technical interviews and found that it didn't move the needle.

Re: Impostor syndrome strikes men just as hard as women in technical interviews

#125

Post by vonmoltke »

mohaine wrote: post #89
_swfb wrote: post #26

As someone with no credentials or official training, and someone who also works at a big megacorporation as an engineer, imposter syndrome hits me fairly hard, especially during interviews. It's really hard to compete with the people who actually have proof that they know what they're doing, and I'm usually interviewing for a job that has a strict requirement of a "bachelors in CS, Math or Physics, Masters preferred"…

I've done 3 interviews in the last couple weeks where candidates couldn't do a simple Python dictionary lookup. These were people with a Masters in CS and have Python as their primary language. I wouldn't worry about being an Impostor.

I have done dozens of interviews in my career and have yet to meet anyone who was this bad. What am I doing wrong?

Re: Impostor syndrome strikes men just as hard as women in technical interviews

#126

Post by taeric »

rconti wrote: post #62
taeric wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd love to see numbers to show how many this is a good guideline for. That is, I think this somewhat describes me too. However, I don't know as that I can give the advice of "ignore practicing interviews."

I didn't say NOT to do it, I just think people focus too much on it. And not even the practice interview itself. I think this mindset that everyone has to have an amazing GitHub and be a rockstar 10x engineer and do tons of practice interviews in itself keeps people from applying for newer and better positions, and improving themselves on the job. That is to say, it's a kind of meta imposter's syndrome. "I'm not even…

So, to those points, I'm pretty sure I agree with you. Curious if this is some sort of survivor bias, though. In particular, how normal are we? If we are the outliers through luck or some other factor, I'd kind of like to know.

Re: Impostor syndrome strikes men just as hard as women in technical interviews

#127

Post by kradroy »

twoquestions wrote: post #11

It doesn't help that job ads are wanting "Top 3% only!" or "Only top 1% Ninja Rockstars need apply!". Kind of reminds me of the market for singers or concert pianists, you absolutely need to be the best, even imperceptibly worse makes you unemployable. Should those of us who aren't top 5%/didn't go to a top school just find another industry, one where sub-perfect work doesn't actively make other people's jobs harder?

It's less of a thing to put that childish language in a job posting these days. It'll come around again though. The more insidious thing is the requirements themselves. They're usually broad and often don't fit the role well, especially for roles above entry level. And sometimes I even come across entry level postings that seem too demanding.

I recently had to proof-read a job req for a lead dev role on our team. It was insane and the person it was targeted at 1) wouldn't work for the compensation we were offering 2) would likely be running their own business. When I gave my opinion to my manager he said "If we can get someone who can meet a third of those requirements and doesn't come off as an asshole, we'll give them an offer."

My husband is applying for jobs now and he says the same thing about senior positions he's come across. "This seems like it's a director's role, not a senior!" I tell him to apply anyway because they're just chest-puffing and won't find that ideal candidate before they make a desperation hire.

Those types of whacked out reqs are written by the employees who are exiting the role. They're likely exiting the role because they took on a bunch of extra responsibilities and weren't getting substantial raises or promotions. If you can do half the shit they did, you'll probably be fine. Although you'll eventually end up leaving that role for the same reasons the guy before you did.

Re: Impostor syndrome strikes men just as hard as women in technical interviews

#128

Post by Konnstann »

driverdan wrote: post #83
bytematic wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Instead of literature go read some of the top posts at /r/cscareerquestions . Students are expected to put in tons of hours "grinding" study sessions for interviews. Recently there was a post about a new grad who felt he wasn't doing very well at his job because he spent to much time practicing for interviews

> Students are expected to put in tons of hours "grinding" study sessions for interviews. You should never study for interviews. If the company isn't asking questions relevant to the work or you can't answer those types of questions then it's best to not work there. General interview skills are different than studying CS problems.

Are you making a distinction between studying interviewing skills and preparing for specific interviews? I think studying the company you want to work for is a key part of making a good impression.

Re: Impostor syndrome strikes men just as hard as women in technical interviews

#129

Post by anon84598 »

leeny wrote: post #124
daenz wrote: post #107

It makes me thrilled to see that we're finally talking about data around gender issues, regardless of what that data actually says. It seems like we're finally getting over the taboo and we're mature enough to look at facts.

If you liked this post, you might also like this one: http://blog.interviewing.io/we-built-voice-modulation-to-mas... TL;DR We made women sound like men and men sound like women in technical interviews and found that it didn't move the needle.

This is interesting, but I feel like it isn't as thorough as I would like. Men and women speak differently in ways that can't be masked by voice modulation and I suspect that phrasing, choice of vocabulary, intonation etc. also play a role in how people are perceived. My hypothesis would be that men are more familiar with how men speak, so if a woman also spoke like that, they would see an improvement. I'm not saying my prediction would definitely be correct, but I think it is an obvious one to consider and this post didn't attempt to address it.

Re: Impostor syndrome strikes men just as hard as women in technical interviews

#130

Post by corodra »

geggam wrote: post #106
corodra wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That was it! I think that's what I heard back in the day. It just sucks that kids these days are judging themselves off these bullshit advertisements. Now they're getting mental issues where they don't have a good self-image in their skill sets. Jesus...it's like the fashion industry for young girls...

How is that different from the past ?

Not sure if I understand your question. Do you mean the mental issues part?

If so, back then we all just thought the HR posting the job was retarded. If I saw something stupid, the person was stupid. It never hurt me.

Nowadays the whole imposter syndrome is becoming a bigger issue. People are becoming more and more inadequate in their own skin. It’s all just getting offended by stuff seen, no matter how small.

I grew up on, “Do they not like you? Fuck them. Move on.”

Just saying that, I feel like a “back in my day” old man. And I’m only 31.

Now kids are taking the most random things to heart. And it’s sad. Really is. And I don’t have a solution for that other than they’re to just ignore the garbage and plow on. Maybe one day I can figure that out. But as it sits, this over artificial world is poisoning from all directions.

You know that movie Interns with the wow actor going to Google. The two older guys had to convince the kids that their lives haven’t even started yet, even though they thought it was going to end if they don’t get into Google? I use to think that movie was silly. But the tech industry is grooming kids to believe this. These ridiculous job interviews. Ridiculous expectations. Tight crunch times and shit hours. All to think they’re making the world a better place. But let’s face it. There’s no difference between big oil and big tech. They’re the same machine spitting out a different product.

Maybe I’m just the last gen that sees it and shows up to meetings drunk.

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