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How the Finnish survive without small talk

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Re: How the Finnish survive without small talk

#121

Post by merpnderp »

tuomosipola wrote: post #57
illuminati1911 wrote: post #7

(I’m a Finn) I didn’t know what small talk was until I went to study abroad. Most of my foreign classmates often asked me things like ”how are you doing?” etc. and when I literally answered them what I had been up to recently they were very confused. ”Dude...no need to tell your life story, just say ’good’ and that’s it” I replied ”Why do you ask a question if you don’t care about the answer?” I learned the hard way,…

There were these two British gentlemen coaching our doctoral programme summer meetup. I think their task was to make us better communicate our research. Probably quite hard because we were all from a STEM background and at least half of us Finns. During a break, we were seated in a table of five and this British guy sits with us for a while and asks some generic questions, but soon leaves our table because he wants t…

Ironic that you made small talk to mock the concept of small talk.

Re: How the Finnish survive without small talk

#122

Post by vlehto »

SilasX wrote: post #99

Random thought: I can't find it, so how do they translate the intro to Return of the Jedi? Moff Jerjerrod: Lord Vader. This is an unexpected pleasure. We are honored by your presence. Darth Vader: You may dispense with the pleasantries, Commander. I am here to put you back on schedule. Is Jerjerrod's line something they wouldn't say? Would it be confusing that someone would need to tell someone to skip the pleasantri…

Finns know that phrase. Just like Americans know the words "your majesty" despite not having any royals.

Finns use it exactly in same way as American would say "your majesty". It would likely be a sarcastic remark coming from a Finn. So the meaning is not that far off.

Re: How the Finnish survive without small talk

#123

Post by [deleted] »

vidarh wrote: post #26
illuminati1911 wrote: post #7

(I’m a Finn) I didn’t know what small talk was until I went to study abroad. Most of my foreign classmates often asked me things like ”how are you doing?” etc. and when I literally answered them what I had been up to recently they were very confused. ”Dude...no need to tell your life story, just say ’good’ and that’s it” I replied ”Why do you ask a question if you don’t care about the answer?” I learned the hard way,…

I'm Norwegian, and had the same experience moving to the UK. For several years I kept grumbling about how rude people were to ask and then just keep walking while I stopped to answer.

[deleted]

Re: How the Finnish survive without small talk

#124

Post by Isamu »

illuminati1911 wrote: post #7

(I’m a Finn) I didn’t know what small talk was until I went to study abroad. Most of my foreign classmates often asked me things like ”how are you doing?” etc. and when I literally answered them what I had been up to recently they were very confused. ”Dude...no need to tell your life story, just say ’good’ and that’s it” I replied ”Why do you ask a question if you don’t care about the answer?” I learned the hard way,…

As an American, I had to learn the same thing. Only as a young kid, but I specifically remember this experience.

I think most people forget this, that you have to learn that a lot of conversation is not literal, it is opaque code for something else.

I am still a pretty literal conversationalist but I can translate fluently.

A friend had a great anecdote about his first meal with his girlfriend's family. The father asked, "is there any salt?" and my friend answered "yes" and just continued eating. He really had no idea that people say things like that instead of what they mean, which is "please pass me the salt," because his family would always just come out and say something more literal.

People who are used to using indirect language are usually shocked that there is any other way to talk.

Re: How the Finnish survive without small talk

#125

Post by vlehto »

Bartweiss wrote: post #120
dingaling wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How do Finns flirt without smalltalk? Just jump straight to 'do you find me attractive?' and 'do you want to date?' Though admittedly I used to work with an Irish guy whose sole chat-up line was 'are ye ridin?' and who had considerable success.

On a related note, what happens at parties where lots of people don't know each other? (Assuming that happens at all.) As much as smalltalk is unneeded in everyday life, having a script that brings out some general background ("so what do you do?", "are you from around here?", "how do you know {host}?") does help when strangers are looking for common ground where they can talk more deeply.

In Finland we have these things called "Pönötys" and "kursaileminen". I'm half kidding, but half serious. Pönötys means awkward formal standing when you are wearing a suit or can of beer, but don't know where to put your hands or anybody to talk to. It actually happens a lot. "Kursaileminen" is kind of pretending that you don't need anything and have nothing to say. It's finnish way of being polite because you are not bothering anybody. Also happens quite a lot.

You do both of those and then you sneak to someone and ask them anything. It might well be "how do you know the host?" But Finns are quite flexible with the subjects because there is no culture of what you ought to speak about. You can ask anything, you don't have to ask anything. But do expect to get a throughout and honest answer.

It's great if you're imaginative and curious or if you want to be left alone. But if you fall in the middle it can get difficult.

Re: How the Finnish survive without small talk

#126

Post by zakk »

illuminati1911 wrote: post #7

(I’m a Finn) I didn’t know what small talk was until I went to study abroad. Most of my foreign classmates often asked me things like ”how are you doing?” etc. and when I literally answered them what I had been up to recently they were very confused. ”Dude...no need to tell your life story, just say ’good’ and that’s it” I replied ”Why do you ask a question if you don’t care about the answer?” I learned the hard way,…

I also learned it the hard way, but coming from the other extreme.

I grew up in Italy, where asking “how are you doing” is not uncommon. Only difference: people actually expect a short summary of what you’ve been up to...

Re: How the Finnish survive without small talk

#127

Post by StavrosK »

SilasX wrote: post #99

Random thought: I can't find it, so how do they translate the intro to Return of the Jedi? Moff Jerjerrod: Lord Vader. This is an unexpected pleasure. We are honored by your presence. Darth Vader: You may dispense with the pleasantries, Commander. I am here to put you back on schedule. Is Jerjerrod's line something they wouldn't say? Would it be confusing that someone would need to tell someone to skip the pleasantri…

In Greek, we might say "skip the formality". I don't think there's a word for "pleasantries", per se. There's also no superficial small talk here, although we do have the "hey, how are you? Good, and you? Good" greeting.

Re: How the Finnish survive without small talk

#129

Post by StavrosK »

raffael-vogler wrote: post #105

> “Laura,” she told me matter-of-factly when I asked why we had bonded so quickly, “The Finnish don’t believe in talking bullshit.” I believe this is characterizing the sentiment of the article much better than what the title conveys. In my experience there are different types of small talk. The infamous kind found in the US is not the only definition of small talk. In many cultures small talk simply means talking wi…

This sounds a lot like the Greek culture, and I always find it a bit uncomfortable to engage in smalltalk when I travel to a country that does it. It's a very specific type of smalltalk, like what you'd do at a bus stop or at a house party, where you're just talking to the other person superficially without any intent to continue any sort of relationship after you've gotten to know them a bit.

I can't explain it very well, but smalltalk is talking to just pass the time until something else happens. We tend to think of talking to someone as a bit more meaningful, and meant to create or deepen a relationship, so if we know that we're never going to see someone again, we tend to just not make an effort to talk to them.

Your point about the "super-nice new friend" rings especially true, as that's what I find most uncomfortable. It just seems extremely fake, and that's not to say there aren't friendly people in the US, it's just that specific interaction where they're being fake-super-friendly as part of a transaction or business relationship.

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