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Americans Own Less Stuff, and That’s Reason to Be Nervous

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Re: Americans Own Less Stuff, and That’s Reason to Be Nervous

#121

Post by rhacker »

Joeri wrote: post #111
digikata wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It sounds like a nightmare to me. A fridge service provider might run the hardware longer, but they wouldn't care much about your power bill, nor fridge features - if old phone monopolies, cable boxes and current isp's are any indicator. And good luck trying to prove to a fridge service provider that their unit has an intermittent thermostat problem... Recycling might be the responsibility of the company, but they mi…

A fridge service provider would care just as much about your power bill as a fridge vendor.

Yeah I was trying to parse this too, if my fridge SP was awful in all the ways mentioned, wouldn't I be looking at the competition, especially now that it's easy to cancel a contract and get a better one so easily - instead of paying $1k for a new fridge.

Re: Americans Own Less Stuff, and That’s Reason to Be Nervous

#122

Post by tonyedgecombe »

magduf wrote: post #106
ryandvm wrote: post #12

As someone who has given away a couple thousand dollars worth of crappy music from the 80s and 90s, I can say for certain that I am glad I don't own it anymore. A Spotify subscription that allows me to listen to practically any song that was ever recorded is of far more utility than a pathetically limited personal music collection.

Why on earth would you pay $ per month to have access to music you like, when you can just have it in MP3/Ogg form, stored on multiple devices (PC, phone, backup HD) and be able to listen to it at any time you want for free?

Assuming you buy it in the first place and you buy the storage/server and you pay for the backup then it isn't free. I just switched to Apple Music so I don't have to deal with all that stuff.

Re: Americans Own Less Stuff, and That’s Reason to Be Nervous

#123

Post by digikata »

rhacker wrote: post #121
Joeri wrote: post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A fridge service provider would care just as much about your power bill as a fridge vendor.

Yeah I was trying to parse this too, if my fridge SP was awful in all the ways mentioned, wouldn't I be looking at the competition, especially now that it's easy to cancel a contract and get a better one so easily - instead of paying $1k for a new fridge.

You can rent fridges right now, few people elect to do it...

Re: Americans Own Less Stuff, and That’s Reason to Be Nervous

#124

Post by toomuchtodo »

yhoneycomb wrote: post #88
imgabe wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> However, if I subscribe to a service to keep my food and beverages at a certain temperature, then the company has the incentive to make the fridge last as long as possible. Theoretically, landlords would have the same incentive to purchase the longest lasting things for their rental units. In my experience, both as a renter and someone who designs buildings, the directive is "get the cheapest possible thing that wi…

Or maybe it's because landlords know that it doesn't matter how long something is supposed to last in the hands of someone who has no willingness or incentive to preserve it

Exactly this. I'm a landlord, and I can't tell you how poorly some people will treat your appliances and other interior household components.

I'm not going to put a Bosch dishwasher in when someone is going to let their kid sit on the door while it's open, not maintain it properly (cleaning out the drain screen monthly), and so on. Maybe some tenants will, but most do not. I make sure to pay for the extended warranty, and my credit card tops the warranty up some more, because one service call is more expensive (and it's built into the cost of the rent). Something breaks? I file a warranty claim or service call, schedule it with the tenant, and move on with my day. My tenants are entitled to working appliances, not fancy appliances. If those appliances are durable and long lasting, bonus.

Re: Americans Own Less Stuff, and That’s Reason to Be Nervous

#125

Post by Spivak »

yhoneycomb wrote: post #88
imgabe wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> However, if I subscribe to a service to keep my food and beverages at a certain temperature, then the company has the incentive to make the fridge last as long as possible. Theoretically, landlords would have the same incentive to purchase the longest lasting things for their rental units. In my experience, both as a renter and someone who designs buildings, the directive is "get the cheapest possible thing that wi…

Or maybe it's because landlords know that it doesn't matter how long something is supposed to last in the hands of someone who has no willingness or incentive to preserve it

You have two options: pay a premium for a durable fridge that needs less/no maintenance or send out your staff to perform regular maintenance. It's more or less what the tenant is paying for when you rent your appliances.

Re: Americans Own Less Stuff, and That’s Reason to Be Nervous

#126

Post by white-flame »

EADGBE wrote: post #50
TaylorAlexander wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

An essentially never discussed option is also that the fridge could be open source. Now when it breaks there is both motive and opportunity for third party repair companies to offer upgrades and fixes.

Needing to make a fridge open sources screams at me that we really need to be simplifying the operation of a fridge. I think component complication for planned obsolescence is much more of a thing than programming something in X years to kill itself.

Devices that are more efficient tend to be more complex, so that's another tradeoff to consider.

Re: Americans Own Less Stuff, and That’s Reason to Be Nervous

#127

Post by jonwachob91 »

amelius wrote: post #6

It may be better for the environment to not own stuff, but instead use services. For example, take a fridge. If I buy a fridge, the company I buy it from has an incentive to make it break in N years, so they can sell me a new one, i.e. "planned obsolescence". However, if I subscribe to a service to keep my food and beverages at a certain temperature, then the company has the incentive to make the fridge last as long…

>For example, take a fridge. If I buy a fridge, the company I buy it from has an incentive to make it break in N years, so they can sell me a new one, i.e. "planned obsolescence". However, if I subscribe to a service to keep my food and beverages at a certain temperature, then the company has the incentive to make the fridge last as long as possible.

You just described a grocery store...

They keep food and beverages at certain temperatures. When you are ready to consume that food or beverage, you can pick it up (or have it delivered). And best of all, you pay no subscription fee :) But in reality, that's not practical. Most families eat 3 meals a day, and consume multiple glasses of some drink a day. To make a trip to the grocery store (or fridge depot subscription place) every time you want to eat or have a cold drink is not practical (and increases environmental pollutants). So maybe you want to go once a day, you'll still need some device at home to keep your groceries and drinks cold until you want to consume, some device like a fridge :p

If you found a solution, that'd be great. But you'd probably just be a food delivery startup with some fancy marketing lingo. And we have plenty of those already.

Re: Americans Own Less Stuff, and That’s Reason to Be Nervous

#128

Post by SamUK96 »

What this is about is the increasing financialisation of the world's economy, in other worsds, consumers don't buy a "fridge" and own a fridge and have dominion over it (classical unfinancialised markets), they instead subscribe to a service that cools their food. This on HN and in other wealthy techno-cratic circles is more-often known as "$something-as-a-service" (or just "XaaS").

It's a trend that is in my honest opinion one of the more increasingly troublesome and negative aspects of modern human civilisation. Xaas has a nasty side-effect of concentrating wealth and power to fewer and fewer individuals, it creates a much deeper power structure, since one finances another who finances another who...and so on, and the more you financialise the more you can financialise - an unstable equilibrium, or "positive feedback loop". With classical unfinancialised markets, it is a more Slack(the app)-like flat structure, where products are exchanged and ownership is transfered. Everyone becomes an owner. Power, wealth, and resources diffuse similar to that of the heat equation.

We can see this nasty effect in the housing markets, for example. The current situation where the law and society in general allows a growing number of ownership-hoarders who buy up many houses in an area and lets them out to their fellow underlings is a rather dangerous and volatile setup, and historically does not end well for anyone, but especially those up top.

Re: Americans Own Less Stuff, and That’s Reason to Be Nervous

#129

Post by eanzenberg »

magduf wrote: post #101
grogenaut wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If how+mortgage is even slightly more than rent you still end up doing well as soon as you are able to clear the agent and closing costs in recouping. Renting is easier to move for sure. But stay there 3 years and the story may be different. Stay there 8 years and you're making out well over rent. But being statitioned I can see why you might not. Then again I have friends with rentals in 5 cities for the same reason…

A 16-year-old car will kill you in a crash that a new one will let you walk away from. That's one big, important factor in the new vs. used debate. There's also the factor of how it's going to affect your job and life if your car breaks down. A 2-decade-old car is going to break down at some inopportune time, like it or not, even with the best maintenance.

Fear monger. A 2002 car still has safety features such as airbags, seatbelts, anti-lock brakes that a 2018 will also have.

Re: Americans Own Less Stuff, and That’s Reason to Be Nervous

#130

Post by Jagat »

vcolano wrote: post #20

I'd agree young Americans are less interested in owning their media and there does seem to be a general trend away from materialism and towards spending any extra income on experiences over objects. However, I reject the notion that the younger generations are less interested in owning property. Young people do want to have a stake in the system, but most places young people are living (especially where they're movin…

I have a few wild hypotheses on this

1. "Experiences over objects" is driven by the need to share it on social media. Photos at the Eiffel Tower garner more likes than a new BMW car.

2. Peer pressure: Experiences of others being shared on social media and garnering likes causes the follower to do the same.

3. Being raised by relatively wealthy parents with all the stuff, and being disillusioned by hoarding and ownership of stuff.

4. Cheaper and more accessible transportation coupled with a general increase in per capita income.

5. Real estate is expensive now, and being forced to live in small rental units, you've learnt to spend time outdoors.

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