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Programming in the Adult Entertainment Industry Is Broken

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Re: Programming in the Adult Entertainment Industry Is Broken

#121

Post by vortico »

pavel_lishin wrote: post #115
vortico wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The customer doesn't need to use crypto for rent or milk. And the customer shouldn't care about the idea of paying content producers directly, that's not the point. The customer uses a fiat -> crypto exchange/wallet combo service, sends a payment in crypto to the content producer, the content producer exchanges it back to fiat currency. The overhead of this is much less than 30-60% as mentioned in the article, and it…

Right, sorry, I wasn't clear. The producer is the one who's going to have a problem. If I'm SquirtyBoy on PornoTron, I still have to convert BitCoin/Ethereum/Whatever into cash so my landlord doesn't kick me out onto the street. (Unless you mean consumers should be paying PornoTron in cryptocurrency, which PornoTron then exchanges into fiat currency, and then pays SquirtyBoys in that. I think I mistook what you meant…

No company that accepts Bitcoin I'm aware of holds cryptocurrency for more than a day. Even my own company cashes out in a matter of hours via BitPay. Of course, they would exchange every day to their USD bank account. This is completely automated at such companies.

See the article for what I mean by middlemen. Stripe/Paypal are not middlemen for adult entertainment companies.

Re: Programming in the Adult Entertainment Industry Is Broken

#122

Post by mrweasel »

bena wrote: post #103
mrweasel wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think I understand the issue with using 3D Secure, or Verified by VISA. It's something customers are already accustom when shopping online. You're buying a high risk item, from the perspective of the sell, similarly to downloadable content, or high price electronics. Solution like 3D Secure seems ideal in this case. Companies like Stripe could easily say: Yes, we do accept payments for adult sites, but 3D Sec…

The problem is the customer on that side. The adult entertainment industry would love to use standard billing methods. But what happens is that the customer invariably screams "I was hacked" when the line item comes on the bill. Then the chargeback happens anyway. Sure, the merchant isn't held financially liable for it, but they are still noted as having that chargeback. And they'll still hit that high percentage of…

That a rather valid point. In theory the card companies would turn around an say: "No, you where not hacked. 3D Secure is completely safe", but do they really want to bother with that kind of publicity? Most likely not.

Re: Programming in the Adult Entertainment Industry Is Broken

#123

Post by 00117 »

xutopia wrote: post #117
asimpletune wrote: post #87

Do developers make more or less working in adult entertainment?

In Montreal I see a lot of junior developers making quite a bit more money than they would in other companies. I don't know any senior developers in the field though.

Yes, we have a low senior count and are always on the lookout for more.

Re: Programming in the Adult Entertainment Industry Is Broken

#125

Post by pavel_lishin »

vortico wrote: post #121
pavel_lishin wrote: post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Right, sorry, I wasn't clear. The producer is the one who's going to have a problem. If I'm SquirtyBoy on PornoTron, I still have to convert BitCoin/Ethereum/Whatever into cash so my landlord doesn't kick me out onto the street. (Unless you mean consumers should be paying PornoTron in cryptocurrency, which PornoTron then exchanges into fiat currency, and then pays SquirtyBoys in that. I think I mistook what you meant…

No company that accepts Bitcoin I'm aware of holds cryptocurrency for more than a day. Even my own company cashes out in a matter of hours via BitPay. Of course, they would exchange every day to their USD bank account. This is completely automated at such companies. See the article for what I mean by middlemen. Stripe/Paypal are not middlemen for adult entertainment companies.

Yeah, I was just using Stripe/Paypal as an example of an payment intermediary. What you're saying makes a lot more sense to me now.

Re: Programming in the Adult Entertainment Industry Is Broken

#126

Post by bena »

vortico wrote: post #119
bena wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> fast enough. 15 minutes to validate a transaction is sufficient for a porn site. And what happens in that 15 minutes? Does the user have access to the site in that time? If so, what happens when the transaction doesn't validate? Just lock out their access? Ok. You can download quite a bit in 15 minutes. And then you can just run another fraudulent transaction to regain access. > - as certain as wiring money. There'…

>And what happens in that 15 minutes? They can beat off to a free site I guess. Nobody's in that much of a rush. In fact, most pay sites take a few minutes after a CC transaction is made because as the article suggests, their transaction passes through a number of middlemen. Most customers are in fact surprised when they can access a pay site immediately after closing the payment window. Most are happy to wait a few…

There is a huge difference between 1 minute and 15 minutes. And "use a free site" is not an acceptable alternative.

I'm talking about payments in general. In a transaction online, there is a certain level of distrust. Both sides are trying to verify to the other that they are legit.

> Yes, but for this discussion, it is completely anonymous.

Why not make credit card vendors completely understanding and customers completely trustworthy as well for the discussion? Then they can just use Visa.

> Your wife cannot figure out the owner of the porn site's wallet ID.

Bit sexist. Assuming that it's the man purchasing the porn and the wife isn't savvy enough to realize that either there's no damn pizza or that you paying pizza half with regular currency and half with bitcoin is just kind of dumb. And would effectively make it double the price since the charge on the card is the price of a normal pizza. If you're going to lie, do it right. Just say you invested a small amount. And when questioned later, say it tanked, good thing you only tested $100 or so. That might buy you 5 months of a site that charges a $20/mo subscription fee. After that, you're on your own.

> the value is going to change less than 1%

You hope. Bitcoin has dropped over $1000 in 1.5 hours. And you're ignoring the transaction fee of the payment and whatever the exchanges charge for cashing out. So you're looking at probably around 30 minutes turnaround from the customer saying "I will pay you" to you collecting any actual money.

Re: Programming in the Adult Entertainment Industry Is Broken

#127

Post by glenneroo »

philtar wrote: post #90
marikio wrote: post #71

There are a few companies/orgs trying to solve these issues: https://spankchain.com/ https://www.iliac.io/ But porn doesn't have high margins. No one (except the large distributors like Mindgeek - Pornhub, Redtube, YouPorn) is making much money. Especially these small sites that are being built. After you subtract legal, production, performer fees you're left with almost nothing. I worked in the Adult Industry for se…

> Porn performers/activists are the kindest, sweetest, most intelligent group of folks I've ever worked with. I'm finding it difficult to believe this given that it's known that pornography is known to be an industry riddled with violence, hard drugs, human trafficking and so on and so forth. Edit: As soon as I posted this I see the other commenter outed you as having an inherent benefit from tricking people into bel…

> I'm finding it difficult to believe this given that it's known that pornography is known to be an industry riddled with violence, hard drugs, human trafficking and so on and so forth.

Known by who? Source?

> Edit: As soon as I posted this I see the other commenter outed you as having an inherent benefit from tricking people into believing pornography is a reputable industry.

What are you talking about? I see nothing like this anywhere in the comments section.

Re: Programming in the Adult Entertainment Industry Is Broken

#128

Post by ghostbrainalpha »

stef25 wrote: post #68
pjc50 wrote: post #4

The big "legit" payment provider is cc-bill. The "tube" sites are more exploitative than the rest of the industry in that they don't actually pay the performers, they're simply piracy, and because small independent producers don't have the political leverage to impose an equivalent of content-ID on them they stay that way.

The tube sites have (official?) channels for all the big porn studios + they have this "verified amateur" feature as well. That's not all piracy afaik.

The problem is its just like Youtube though right?

You build a gigantic audience on pirated content, then once you are many people's go-to destination for porn, you can allow the big companies to have official partnerships.

They are kind of stuck with that partnership because of the size of the Tube sites audience, which they built illegally. They also CONTINUE to post pirated content everyday, which sustains that audience and prevents those companies from just making their own TUBE site. But because the pirated content posted today will be from users, and the TUBE site will eventually take it down, the TUBE company is not a bad actor in this situation.

At the end of the day, I can still watch the newest Netflix Standup special I've been waiting for, for free on Youtube. And I'll still catch the new Adult Avenger's Parody on another TUBE site for free, without the consent of the companies that paid to create those films.

Re: Programming in the Adult Entertainment Industry Is Broken

#129

Post by jandrese »

ta230493 wrote: post #108
philtar wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Porn performers/activists are the kindest, sweetest, most intelligent group of folks I've ever worked with. I'm finding it difficult to believe this given that it's known that pornography is known to be an industry riddled with violence, hard drugs, human trafficking and so on and so forth. Edit: As soon as I posted this I see the other commenter outed you as having an inherent benefit from tricking people into bel…

From my limited experience talking to people working in this space, the violence / human trafficking portion is not really a problem in the adult entertainment space. At least, many models definitely work voluntarily. I think trafficking is more of a potential issue at the shady ends of prostitution. The downside of the adult entertainment industry is that you did hear of tales of questionable employers... it's less…

It makes sense that you wouldn't see much trafficking in the porn space under the "don't film your crimes you moron" rule.

Re: Programming in the Adult Entertainment Industry Is Broken

#130

Post by ghostbrainalpha »

sokoloff wrote: post #100
Fjolsvith wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or prostitutes?

Why would you need crypto (rather than cash) for any inherently in-person exchange?

A prostitute of sufficient quality and reputation may actually require payment ahead of time.
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