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Thank you HN

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Re: Thank you HN

#122
post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is said so often and yet for me personally gym helps only very temporarily - just after workout I feel great, but the next day anxiety might kick-in again.

The research we have says exercise is moderately better than doing nothing, unless you only include good quality research in which case the benefit is harder to see. https://www.cochrane.org/CD004366/DEPRESSN_exercise-for-depr...

Thanks for posting this. The conclusion on that page is:

  > Exercise is moderately more effective than a control intervention for
  > reducing symptoms of depression, but analysis of methodologically robust
  > trials only shows a smaller effect in favour of exercise. When compared
  > to psychological or pharmacological therapies, exercise appears to be no
  > more effective, though this conclusion is based on a few small trials.
My personal take is that the big things to note are:

1. Reducing symptoms of depression is not the same thing as treating depression.

Thus, if you exercise and it works for you to reduce the symptoms, you aren't "better," you just aren't feeling as depressed. This is valuable in its own right, as the symptoms of depression can interfere with you seeking actual treatment... But it is not helpful if you think you're better, stop exercising for some reason, and fall back into depression again, possibly with a side-order of pessimism that nothing seems to work.

2. Exercise is not more effective than psychological or pharmacological therapies.

Although they say there are only a few trials to establish this, I personally feel it's quite safe to assume that it is not more effective, and as per 1 above, that it can be harmful to take an "either/or" approach to exercise and other therapies. Until someone shows me research saying that exercise in conjunction with therapy is worse than therapy alone, I personally try to do both.

---

The uncomfortable truth about exercise is that a large number of people with mood disorders self-medicate their symptoms with endorphins. When that is used as an alternative to therapy, it may be harmful.

Re: Thank you HN

#123
post #107

Speaking as someone who has lived through dark days myself... I want to point out that we know that exercise helps with moods. The data is there. That being said, mood disorders are like autoimmune diseases of the emotions. Feeling blue or anxious or clinically depressed makes it harder to work out. And if you don't, you can easily beat yourself up for not "fixing yourself." On the other side of the fence, lots of pe…

> I want to point out that we know that exercise helps with moods. The data is there. No, we really don't. We don't even have evidence that exercise is better than doing nothing.

Actually, we do. It's not a cure-all. You shouldn't suddenly become a rabid "big psychiatry and big pharama are frauds, just exercise, eat right, and get 8 hours of sleep" zealot.

But modest improvements in symptoms have been shown time and time again. More modest than many claim, but non-zero.

The link you posted says so:

  > Exercise is moderately more effective than a control intervention for
  > reducing symptoms of depression, but analysis of methodologically robust
  > trials only shows a smaller effect in favour of exercise.
And it also recommends further research to discover what kinds of exercise are most effective:

  > The reviewers recommend that future research should look in more detail
  > at what types of exercise could most benefit people with depression, and
  > the number and duration of sessions which are of most benefit.
https://www.cochrane.org/CD004366/DEPRESSN_exercise-for-depr...

Re: Thank you HN

#124
post #107

Speaking as someone who has lived through dark days myself... I want to point out that we know that exercise helps with moods. The data is there. That being said, mood disorders are like autoimmune diseases of the emotions. Feeling blue or anxious or clinically depressed makes it harder to work out. And if you don't, you can easily beat yourself up for not "fixing yourself." On the other side of the fence, lots of pe…

> I want to point out that we know that exercise helps with moods. The data is there. No, we really don't. We don't even have evidence that exercise is better than doing nothing.

If by "we" you mean you and your sources, ok. I do have evidence that exercise is better than doing nothing FOR ME.

Re: Thank you HN

#125

Speaking as someone who has lived through dark days myself... I want to point out that we know that exercise helps with moods. The data is there. That being said, mood disorders are like autoimmune diseases of the emotions. Feeling blue or anxious or clinically depressed makes it harder to work out. And if you don't, you can easily beat yourself up for not "fixing yourself." On the other side of the fence, lots of pe…

This is said so often and yet for me personally gym helps only very temporarily - just after workout I feel great, but the next day anxiety might kick-in again.

Just my 2c: consider vigorously walking for 30-90 min per day every day you do not go to the gym. This is safe (walking is generally low impact on your tendons) and can extend the duration of the feel good effect.

Re: Thank you HN

#126

“When I was young, I used to admire intelligent people; as I grow older, I admire kind people.” — Abraham Joshua Heschel Words I am always reminded of whenever I try to be too clever on the internet. Glad you're doing better.

>“When I was young, I used to admire intelligent people; as I grow older, I admire kind people.” It's the function of their risk profile. Young want to maximize payoff which is possible through intelligence, old ones want to reduce their risk so are subject to soceity's kindness.

I disagree I think it's a function of difficulty.

When you are young and depend on others for basically everything it is easier to be kind, and more in your best interest. It's difficult to appear intelligent because you haven't had as much time to learn.

When you are a wealthy older person, (not necessarily at the end of your life) but 40+, you basically don't need anyone to help you with anything. You can be as much of a jerk as you want. Those that choose to continue to fight hard to develop empathy really are going against the grain.

Have you heard the expression if you aren't a liberal when you are young, then you have no heart? If you aren't a conservative when you are old, then you have no brain? It's a dumb saying, but it does seem to reflect a general pattern that most people follow.

Re: Thank you HN

#127
What exercises do you do in gym, and how do you keep at it? It's hard to hit the gym after work because of exhaustion, or early morning before work because I need my sleep.

Re: Thank you HN

#128
post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

French here. 33k is fairly decent in Paris, with no degree and no experience. Outside of Paris, it's really good. It's above the average for a top degree in a top school.

Do you mean an average gross income in general or for senior devs particularly?

For new graduates or little experience.

One thing to note, education is free in France and the norm is to get a master. You won't get an interview anywhere without a master.

Re: Thank you HN

#129

Congrats, I'm your old one at the moment. I'm a bit more desperate because my wife is pregnant. Happy father's day to me I guess

I also closed my startup and was super depressed while my wife was pregnant and for about 6 months after.

The baby actually helped, because I was so tired from getting up in the night, my brain didn't have as much energy to be depressed or worry about my problems.

I just kept chugging along sending out applications, and it took way longer than I expected but a good job came through.

Re: Thank you HN

#130
post #44

>...and started working out I can't emphasize enough how much this helps. If anyone is suffering from depressions, anxiety and overthinking -- consider starting working out. It will make wonders to your mood. I'm not saying that it will fix your suffering entirely, because it typically requires a mental effort as well. But it will make your life noticeably more enjoyable.

Meh, exercise didn't help my severe clinical depression in the least. It probably will help if you're feeling a little down, but that doesn't necessarily translate to improvement in clinical depression. It's borderline dangerous to hold it up as a panacea.
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