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Smoking around the world

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Re: Smoking around the world

#121

Post by dragonwriter »

geomark wrote: post #19
TheSpiceIsLife wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I haven’t seen any numbers, but I would have thought tiny minority would be more accurate?

In some areas the percentage of unvaccinated is quite high. See this map of anti-vaxxers by county http://rpubs.com/markdg/AntivaxxerHotspots It uses the Personal Belief Exemption for school children as a proxy for the general population of anti-vaxxers. So arguably a bit inaccurate.

> It uses the Personal Belief Exemption for school children as a proxy for the general population of anti-vaxxers. So arguably a bit inaccurate.

Well, also there's been a lot of news events around the issue since 2015, which led to the elimination of the exemption, so its quite possible there have been signficant movements in attitudes in the last three years.

Re: Smoking around the world

#122

Post by dionidium »

zavi wrote: post #18
anewone wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Smoking is scary on an individual level, not to mention expensive. Those other causes you mentioned aren't interesting if you don't personally need them. It's harder to get someone to make a short term sacrifice for other people's long term gains.

A better analogy would be a potential campaign to reduce obesity. If US could pull off a public fat shaming campaign as successful and the one around tobacco it would be a huge benefit to individual people's quality of life as well as economy as a whole.

Well, the obviously better analogy is drinking. Just as people in the U.S. once thought smoking was essential to the enjoyment of all kinds of human activity, so now do people think this way about alcohol, to enormous social detriment.

Interestingly, the anti-smoking crowd won by convincing the public that absolutely any amount of smoking is so harmful to yourself and (crucially!) everyone around you that consuming even the smallest amounts is unconscionable. That's obviously untrue, but it's a very successful narrative (so successful that I suspect most of you will bristle at the suggestion that it's not true).

This was crucial because it convinced people that: 1) no, moderation isn't acceptable; and 2) every bit of intake is harming somebody else.

A truthful campaign couldn't have made these two arguments and so wouldn't have been as successful.

Re: Smoking around the world

#123

Post by Scarblac »

sergers wrote: post #64
ams6110 wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My dad was a smoker most of his life. He quit in his 50s. Years later I asked him if he missed it, and his answer was "every single day."

I have some coworkers who successfully quit, but started smoking again cause they simply enjoyed it. They hardly drank(liquor) and it was their ownly vice, knowing it's still bad for them but could be doing worse.

> I have some coworkers who successfully quit, but started smoking again cause they simply enjoyed it.

How is that different from failing to quit?

Re: Smoking around the world

#124

Post by saiya-jin »

nvarsj wrote: post #94
notyourwork wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I hate to say it but generally people are overweight because they eat more than they should. Not much more to it for majority of the overweight population. Exercise is great but lack of it isn’t the obesity drover.

Well, there's a darker side to that as well. Obesity is a problem for low income people - because cheap food is usually terrible for you - high calories, high salt, high fat and easy to eat a lot of. Think of your typical fast food - the amount of calories that can be bought for a few dollars. Same with soft drinks. Shaming people who get large might be one strategy, but we also need to stop the fast food peddlers th…

Sorry but I don't fully agree on this one - you can cook your own stuff from cheap ingredients, you can eat cheap pre-made salads etc. I had my share of burgers and other crappy food in my life, but it was always my conscious decision over healthier options. blaming some evil forces out there is beyond pathetic

Let's stop treating people who eat what they want as children who don't have the willpower to decide for themselves (or like heroin addicts).

You want a simple solution? Tax food based on sugar content, and tunnel those extra billions into some meaningful part of healthcare system. Make obvious junk food more expensive. Of course this won't happen so easily, but even marginal steps can save hundreds/thousands of lives.

Re: Smoking around the world

#125

Post by mixmastamyk »

fyfy18 wrote: post #61
mixmastamyk wrote: post #27

One of the few things I despised about traveling in Europe was people smoking inside like it was the 70's. Almost lost it over a couple puffing away in the dairy section of the super market, managed to keep my mouth shut. Shame because I otherwise loved my time there.

Was it in the 70s you went? All European countries now have indoor smoking bans, mostly for a decade or more. Some countries still let you smoke in bars and restaurants, but nowhere allows you to smoke inside a supermarket.

Was ten years ago in Portugal, and remember a table full of people smoking next to us in an indoor cafe in Germany, windows closed in the winter.

Re: Smoking around the world

#126

Post by mixmastamyk »

kbart wrote: post #100
mixmastamyk wrote: post #27

One of the few things I despised about traveling in Europe was people smoking inside like it was the 70's. Almost lost it over a couple puffing away in the dairy section of the super market, managed to keep my mouth shut. Shame because I otherwise loved my time there.

First of all, as other comments have mentioned it's really not a common sight in Europe. Actually, I haven't seen anybody smoking inside a supermarket during my whole life living in Europe (>30 years) and traveling there extensively. Secondly, even if it were common, your indignation seems strange as you come to a different culture and judge people according to your customs. Do you honestly believe that the whole con…

You may have missed the part where I kept my mouth shut.

Portugal, ten years ago.

"Relativism" doesn't excuse their behavior. Smoking inside is disgusting and known to be mildly dangerous for fifty years.

Re: Smoking around the world

#127

Post by mixmastamyk »

ionised wrote: post #102
mixmastamyk wrote: post #27

One of the few things I despised about traveling in Europe was people smoking inside like it was the 70's. Almost lost it over a couple puffing away in the dairy section of the super market, managed to keep my mouth shut. Shame because I otherwise loved my time there.

Can't say I've ever spotted anyone smoking in the supermarket in my 32 years in Europe.

Portugal, ten years ago. Germany at least it was a cafe, but wintertime and all the windows closed.

Re: Smoking around the world

#128

Post by shady-lady »

chosenbreed wrote: post #117
point78 wrote: post #74

Very disappointed in EU here! Such a disgusting habit that kills and leads to large quality of life loss later in life. Needs to be severely reduced or banned altogether. Seeing 15 year olds smoke is a huge societal failure.

> Very disappointed in EU here! Such a disgusting habit that kills and leads to large quality of life loss later in life I agree in part but the libertarian in me thinks that people should be free to do what they want to their bodies provided it is not at the expense of society as a whole. For example banning smoking in offices, public buildings, spaces, etc is a good thing. Banning people from smoking in their own g…

> the libertarian in me thinks that people should be free to do what they want to their bodies provided it is not at the expense of society as a whole

society is burdened in the 50% chance scenario that they develop lung cancer, alongside other medical problems which smoking exacerbates as well as being a contributory factor to others.

Re: Smoking around the world

#129

Post by JoeAltmaier »

shady-lady wrote: post #128
chosenbreed wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Very disappointed in EU here! Such a disgusting habit that kills and leads to large quality of life loss later in life I agree in part but the libertarian in me thinks that people should be free to do what they want to their bodies provided it is not at the expense of society as a whole. For example banning smoking in offices, public buildings, spaces, etc is a good thing. Banning people from smoking in their own g…

> the libertarian in me thinks that people should be free to do what they want to their bodies provided it is not at the expense of society as a whole society is burdened in the 50% chance scenario that they develop lung cancer, alongside other medical problems which smoking exacerbates as well as being a contributory factor to others.

People die of something. It costs no matter what that is. So there's some extra cost since they're dying sooner (maybe?) It's more complicated than 'Hospital costs!' since those are pretty unavoidable no matter how you die?
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