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False Advertising for College Is Pretty Much the Norm

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Re: False Advertising for College Is Pretty Much the Norm

#121

Post by mkirklions »

jedberg wrote: post #42
topkai22 wrote: post #36

The real problem with higher education is really how we finance it. Give the lenders the ability to discriminate based on major and borrowers the ability to default easier and all of a sudden you’ve got some banks seriously motivated to ensure students get economic return on their investments. Besides, it just shouldn’t take a decade or more for someone to discharge a bad debt. Student debt seems uniquely oppressive…

That's how you get nothing but science and engineering majors, because most other majors don't have the ROI on average. But society is probably better off with some history and art majors too. We need to find a way to finance education that isn't based on future income.

Why?

The most creative people I know are engineers.

My friend who studied music is a tutor making $15/hr.

He isnt writing, I know this, he does his job, goes home, end of the day as far as society outside netflix is concerned.

While this engineer is constantly playing and learning music theory, recording, and soon to be releasing content.

This could merely be personality traits, but the methodical nature of engineering may make it beneficial outside physics.

Re: False Advertising for College Is Pretty Much the Norm

#122

Post by anticensor »

WalterBright wrote: post #51
iampims wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Same thing happened when someone noticed a correlation between successful kids and kids who have books at home. Someone ordered that every household should have books at home while failing to realize that correlation != causation…

It's a well-known fact that your car will go faster if it is painted red.

Did you mean "won't go faster"? This reads like an unmarked sarcasm.

Re: False Advertising for College Is Pretty Much the Norm

#123

Post by reaperducer »

CM30 wrote: post #99

Eh, even most normal colleges are pretty honest in their ads compared to game design ones: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kAFLfx3mvIg https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BRWvfMLl4ho But seriously, the fact of the matter is: 1. Too many people go to college, so its original value (as a status indicator) is now virtually non existent 2. It's too expensive, so unless a good job is a near guaranteed outcome, people will lad…

That sounds good in writing, but it doesn’t seem to work in real life for some reason.

Two of the cities I’ve lived in have been places with several large businesses focused on a single non-factory industry. They could never get enough workers, so demand for labor was high and because of that so were wages.

The prevailing attitude among the very local teens (2nd generation plus) was “Why should I go to college when I can make $xx/hour working in the industry?”

Their parents also worked in the industry and thus didn’t push their children to go to college.

The mentality is so pervasive that at a community event I saw an industry table set up with a big banner reading “Why you don’t need college,” and nobody else thought that was odd.

The result is that most of the locals are pretty dumb. They make poor decisions in their personal lives, which has an impact on the entire city, it’s policing policies and it’s healthcare system.

Non-industry businesses are reluctant to move to those cities because they can’t find educated workers, so the economy can’t diversify.

I saw a tech startup hiring people straight out of high school simply because that’s all it could find. Not surprisingly, the company failed in under a year.

It’s a shame that college is so expensive, and there should be a way to fix that. But in my experience, employers wanting degrees helps society ad a whole because it encourages more people to seek higher education who would otherwise be complacent.

Re: False Advertising for College Is Pretty Much the Norm

#124

Post by arcbyte »

kryogen1c wrote: post #104
jwally wrote: post #92

The U.S. would do itself a huge favour by allowing student debt to be bankruptable. College prices can rise infinitely because there is an unlimited supply of AAA+ debt to feed it. Drop that rating to reality and investors don't buy the debt, loans don't get originated, demand for college at $250k dries up.

Used to be. Doctors and lawyers would go through a decade of school on loan and then discharge it all and start a lucrative practice. That's part of how we got here.

The doctors in my family all graduated from med school with less than 20k total student loan debt. School was much cheaper 30 years ago

Re: False Advertising for College Is Pretty Much the Norm

#125

Post by bedhead »

jwally wrote: post #92

The U.S. would do itself a huge favour by allowing student debt to be bankruptable. College prices can rise infinitely because there is an unlimited supply of AAA+ debt to feed it. Drop that rating to reality and investors don't buy the debt, loans don't get originated, demand for college at $250k dries up.

Who is going to lend tens of thousands of dollars to an 18 year old with no income, no assets, and no credit?

Re: False Advertising for College Is Pretty Much the Norm

#126

Post by chrisseaton »

scarface74 wrote: post #113
bigmanwalter wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People like credit. The threat of losing it is more than enough reason to avoid bankruptcy.

You can completely recover from bankruptcy within 7 years - a much shorter time than it takes to pay off a loan. More than likely though, it won’t come to bankruptcy. After not paying your credit card for awhile, you can usually negotiate a lower rate. There are all kind of ways to get around bad credit - co-signers, putting things in your spouses name, etc. You can also buy a house three years after a foreclosure wi…

> You can completely recover from bankruptcy

No I don't think you can ever completely recover from bankruptcy. I'm often asked on applications for things 'have you ever been bankrupt'. It is a permanent matter of public record that you are a bankrupt.

Re: False Advertising for College Is Pretty Much the Norm

#127

Post by PopeDotNinja »

bedhead wrote: post #125
jwally wrote: post #92

The U.S. would do itself a huge favour by allowing student debt to be bankruptable. College prices can rise infinitely because there is an unlimited supply of AAA+ debt to feed it. Drop that rating to reality and investors don't buy the debt, loans don't get originated, demand for college at $250k dries up.

Who is going to lend tens of thousands of dollars to an 18 year old with no income, no assets, and no credit?

Then make college free!

Re: False Advertising for College Is Pretty Much the Norm

#128

Post by WorkLifeBalance »

CM30 wrote: post #99

Eh, even most normal colleges are pretty honest in their ads compared to game design ones: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kAFLfx3mvIg https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BRWvfMLl4ho But seriously, the fact of the matter is: 1. Too many people go to college, so its original value (as a status indicator) is now virtually non existent 2. It's too expensive, so unless a good job is a near guaranteed outcome, people will lad…

> "Too many people go to college"

This is complete claptrap, would you also say "Too many people go to secondary school"? How about "Too many people go to elementary"?

There is vast value in an educated workforce and "too many" is a nonsense reason for why university level education shouldn't be available for all.

Re: False Advertising for College Is Pretty Much the Norm

#129

Post by sgroppino »

mkirklions wrote: post #120
CPLX wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or instead, like most other advanced societies, we could stop trying to quantify higher education in purely personal economic return on investment grounds and consider an educated populace a public good.

This sounds like/is bad economics. Educated populace in video game history isnt value added like an engineering degree. You can educate yourself in anything, but society only values education in a few value-added sectors.

It is pure economics, supply and demand.

Re: False Advertising for College Is Pretty Much the Norm

#130

Post by ataturk »

jwally wrote: post #92

The U.S. would do itself a huge favour by allowing student debt to be bankruptable. College prices can rise infinitely because there is an unlimited supply of AAA+ debt to feed it. Drop that rating to reality and investors don't buy the debt, loans don't get originated, demand for college at $250k dries up.

Actually, I'm a fan of accountability, so no. What should happen is the easy loans should be eliminated altogether, which would get Wall Street out of higher ed and return things to a more sane basis. These schools ran away so hard with all that money and put up outrageous numbers of buildings and ran other expensive projects that have led to out of control costs and diminishing returns for actual students.

Bill Clinton presided over the changes that led to this mess. I know many of you are too young to know that, but Bill Clinton was not a great leader of the USA, he was a manipulator, interested in maximizing gains for his politically connected allies.

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