Millions of educated, experienced workers are tossed aside by a strong economy • Hacker News Board

Re: Millions of educated, experienced workers are tossed aside by a strong economy

#121

Post by timbit42 » Tue, Jul 24, 2018, 1:17 PM UTC

AnimalMuppet wrote: post #88

mrlatinos wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's always the easy answer, isn't it?

Until you have to find enough money to pay for it.

There is a lot of savings in its low administration costs. Since it would replace a number of social programs that have high administration costs, a UBI actually saves money.

There can be additional cost savings in UBI (and even in existing social programs) if it is structured to incentivise people to work. Many existing social programs actually disincentivise people from working because they lose the income from the social program if they work (too much) and it results in a net loss for them, so they don't bother working.

If a social program is structured so that people don't lose all of their social program income when they work, then they realize a net gain in their income and they continue working. The longer they continue working, the more likely it is that they will gain experience allowing them to make more income on their own, resulting in a further reduction of their social program income.

A very simplistic example would be to remove 50 cents for every dollar they make at their job. If they received $500/month when not working, by the time they're making $1000/month at their job, they're receiving no social program income anymore.

Re: Millions of educated, experienced workers are tossed aside by a strong economy

#122

Post by pixl97 » Tue, Jul 24, 2018, 1:32 PM UTC

adamsea wrote: post #19

jblow wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You have to work out a system, then, to figure out who pays to employ the people doing unprofitable work. Not as easy as it sounds.

Yes but also the entire definition of "profitable" vs "unprofitable" work is messed up. Simple example: The real, measurable costs of pollution - illness, polluted drinking water, etc - are externalized and so companies doing said polluting are "profitable." Would they still be profitable if those costs were not externalized? I suspect not. Similarly I suspect there are externalities not being accounted for, for self…

Hmm, in your incentive system, human exterminator might be the most profitable job title.

Re: Millions of educated, experienced workers are tossed aside by a strong economy

#123

Post by notadoc » Tue, Jul 24, 2018, 4:10 PM UTC

slededit wrote: post #20

ourmandave wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I know a few people who would have retired except they need the health insurance.

Isn't medicare better than most private insurance plans?

Maybe a long time ago. Politics have dramatically since changed Medicare, which is why nearly all seniors buy supplement plans today.

Re: Millions of educated, experienced workers are tossed aside by a strong economy

#124

Post by kamarg » Tue, Jul 24, 2018, 9:42 PM UTC

nradov wrote: post #103

kamarg wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

All of the examples you gave of jobs that government should be paying people to do are jobs that are already done in the private sector. Tutoring and child care alone are very large industries. The biggest issue with your proposal is that if those employees paid by the government to do these jobs are paid less than the private sector, you'll put the private sector out of business. If they're paid the same or better,…

You could just as well argue that we should eliminate existing government jobs and contract them out to create more private sector businesses. It's just a matter of degree. I would propose that the temporary government employees be paid minimum wage. This isn't intended to be permanent.

That minimum wage government child care worker would put a whole bunch of private sector child care workers out of a job because the government can sell their child care services for cheaper than that for profit child care company can even ignoring the fact that the government run child care will be entirely tax payer funded.

There's quite a few jobs for which the government rightfully has a monopoly. I certainly wouldn't want the fire/police forces to be private. We had that and saw the problems it created. Same goes for the military. I'm not aware of an example of a private IRS or judicial system at a national level but I can't possibly see that going well either.

So yes it's a matter of degree but I disagree with you strongly on where to draw the line.

Re: Millions of educated, experienced workers are tossed aside by a strong economy

#125

Post by Karishma1234 » Sun, Aug 05, 2018, 5:43 AM UTC

toomuchtodo wrote: post #33

Karishma1234 wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Human Potential is worthless if it is not profitable. A lot of third world countries have jobs programs where they pay one group to dig holes and another group to fill up those holes. What US currently lacks is the entrepreneurs who would come up with new products and services and then employe the unemployed, old people etc. But given the restrictions on immigration of highly skilled individual this is going to be to…

Immigrant entrepreneurs aren’t going to magically start hiring elderly and other under employed cohorts.

No, may be they will hire all the young ones and native born will hire the elderly. The idea is to unleash creativity.