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The San Franciso Fire Department makes its own wooden ladders by hand

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121–130 of 341 posts

Re: The San Franciso Fire Department makes its own wooden ladders by hand

#121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What kind of ladders do the power line companies use?

What kind of ladders to the power line companies use? Doesn't matter. The electric company isn't hanging on the outside of a building that's on fire.

No, it does matter because everyone on this site is a genius and the firefighters don't know what the hell they're doing.

Re: The San Franciso Fire Department makes its own wooden ladders by hand

#122
post #22

There's an old saying among firefighters: "The fire service is 200+ years of tradition, unimpeded by progress". Now obviously that isn't strictly true, and SF does have some good reasons for sticking with their wooden ladders... but one can't help but suspect that sheer tradition is a somewhat significant factor. Of course some departments adopt change faster than others, and some kinds of change are adopted more rea…

> one can't help but suspect that sheer tradition is a somewhat significant factor Only if you didn't read the article. "There's a city-specific reason why San Francisco has stuck with wood rather than swap over to metals, and the answer lies in looking up. The high-voltage cables and wires that guide the city's (oft-maligned) public transport system Muni, and trolley cars crisscross above nearly every street, mean t…

I would add that aluminum ladders tend to be bouncy because there's very little mechanical damping. I've climbed 30' aluminum ladders and in the middle it's like being on a trampoline. You have to go slow. Wood ladders seem better for racing up and down.

Re: The San Franciso Fire Department makes its own wooden ladders by hand

#123
Loved reading this! I just finished restored a 1912 house in Oakland made out of the same old growth west coast douglas fir - from the framing to the copious clear vertical grain and quarter sawn wainscoting, all stripped, sanded and refinished in a natural varnish. Great to see this kind of craftsmanship alive and well!

Re: The San Franciso Fire Department makes its own wooden ladders by hand

#124
post #47
post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Fiberglass, probably. Which is what SF should be doing.

How does fiberglass stand to high heat?

I looked up g11 and g10 for their structural heat limits, because I know they have a higher heat resistance than most fiberglass, and are limited to around 150c/ 300f. I looked up what a typical house fire burns at which is 600c/1100f.

This is actually a great case where asbestos shines. It's nonconductive and can stand very high temperatures. If not for the whole cancer thing.

Re: The San Franciso Fire Department makes its own wooden ladders by hand

#125
post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

a retired police officer once told me that the quantity of officers citywide goes through a repeated cycle from low to high to low again. when the number of officers is too low and there's too much crime, the people demand that the government hire more. so government does that. and crime goes down. then the public notices all these police officers "doing nothing" and complains about wasted government resources. so, n…

This is a common phenomena, and I'm not sure if there's a general term for it. E.g. people prematurely stop taking antibiotics because they feel better, or people go off their meds because they feel fine, etc.

Also a common pattern in biological ecosystems. Great weather one year leads to lots of fresh grass around, so more rabbits than usual survive to adulthood. An abundance of rabbits leads to more foxes than usual surviving. But the next year the increased fox population over-hunts the rabbits, crashing their population, and the next winter the underfed fox population crashes in turn, allowing more rabbits to survive to adulthood... etc. etc.

Re: The San Franciso Fire Department makes its own wooden ladders by hand

#126

I can't think of any reason to acclimatize them this way instead of kiln drying/vaporizing them (depending) to roughly the right moisture content and waiting for 1% change (instead of kiln drying them to 0, or waiting forever for completely green wood) There are studies going back to the 70's by the forestry service (and others) showing there is no change in mechanical properties of pine/fir from these drying schedul…

The stockpile is "tiny" so I guess it doesn't really matter unless they are running low on material.

Doesn't make sense to put the capital forward for a kiln if they don't need it!

Re: The San Franciso Fire Department makes its own wooden ladders by hand

#127
post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I must be maintaining the wrong systems, because over here 95% of the time is reacting to emergencies (some technical, but most fabricated by management)

First thing that came to my mind too! I've had two "Please call me, it's broke" calls just this morning!

Why does your manager know this before you do though?

Re: The San Franciso Fire Department makes its own wooden ladders by hand

#128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I didn't say they weren't practical.

I mean, why would the shape change?

Yes, since the tasks and material change.

Modern materials are lighter and more stable, thus need less material, which gives more flexibility to move.

Also the tasks changed. These days there are less fires, but more kinds of "technical assistance" and when there is fire water usage is more targeted and restricted.

Re: The San Franciso Fire Department makes its own wooden ladders by hand

#129

If you get a chance to visit a Smokejumper base, I highly recommend it. One of the things you learn is that everyone on the team is required to make all of their own equipment by hand. So all of these highly trained, ex-military guys spend days on end doing nothing but sewing clothes and packing parachutes. The reasons described: - Cheaper than contracting out everything - They have a better idea of the exact specifi…

It makes sense for a job where 95% of the time is spent waiting for an emergency to react to .

And your life depends on your gear.

Re: The San Franciso Fire Department makes its own wooden ladders by hand

#130

I can't think of any reason to acclimatize them this way instead of kiln drying/vaporizing them (depending) to roughly the right moisture content and waiting for 1% change (instead of kiln drying them to 0, or waiting forever for completely green wood) There are studies going back to the 70's by the forestry service (and others) showing there is no change in mechanical properties of pine/fir from these drying schedul…

The material they show in the article is massive. Thick, long and heavy. Even if there are kilns big enough, the wood would no longer be straight after a fast kiln drying.

A 50' 3x3" board would be twisted and bowed so much that the ladder would be a spiral staircase.

It doesn't matter for 20' 2x4 destined for a construction site.

Even if the wood was kiln dried, it would still have to acclimatizate for months or years before it would be at a stable 13% humidity of San Francisco.

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