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Police search homes of Zwiebelfreunde board members and OpenLab in Augsburg

ccc.de

121–130 of 136 posts

Re: Police search homes of Zwiebelfreunde board members and OpenLab in Augsburg

#121
post #82
post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Small note, it's usually rendered as "fruit" of the poisonous tree. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fruit_of_the_poisonous_tree

Non-mobile link: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fruit_of_the_poisonous_tree

FYI I made a small chrome extension to auto-redirect links like this: https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/demobile/poikbhnlb...

Re: Police search homes of Zwiebelfreunde board members and OpenLab in Augsburg

#122
post #14
post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Help me understand as I am not living in Germany: Authorities can search and seize property of any civilian without a warrant if said civilian is just a witness? If yes, then who decides and how is it decided that someone is a witness? If for example I happen to stand in front of my window and witness a crime being committed in the street, they could search my house without any consent or warrant?

They need a warrant (unless there is imminent danger).

Like the imminent danger of a 3D model of a nuclear bomb exploding. Got it.

Re: Police search homes of Zwiebelfreunde board members and OpenLab in Augsburg

#123
post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They also recently passed a law that allows the police to indefinitely detain you. Also the prosecutor there has a long history of scandals accumulating on their wikipedia page: https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Staatsanwaltschaft_Augsburg

That's the reason why there's an ongoing travel warning to the state of Bavaria. https://www.lawblog.de/index.php/archives/2017/07/20/bayern-... But now that some other german states took over the unconstitutional interpretation of federal law from Bavarian judges it became a state issue. There should be some oversight, when judges and police plot against constitutional rights.

That's not an official travel warning. It's just a blogpost where the title contains "Travel warning"

Re: Police search homes of Zwiebelfreunde board members and OpenLab in Augsburg

#124

After my initial outrage, I calmed down and looked at this dryly. What if the main issue is that the prosecutors just do not have appropriate mental models of hackers? The crucial step is that they wanted to get ahold of Riseup, a mail provider (and hence, in their view, a commercial entity). Then they find those German people (whom they can get ahold of) who collect money for Riseup. I find it very likely that they…

Additionally, while Coca-Cola is a company, Riseup is a non-profit, Openlab / onionfriends are also non-profits. They have volunteers, with a mindset shared by both groups. I assume volunteers will often help at multiple non-profits (spin-offs, etc.). Starting with the people that already have a connection and shared mindset is logical.

Re: Police search homes of Zwiebelfreunde board members and OpenLab in Augsburg

#125
post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Calling for protests of a far-right conservative party's convention in Bavaria apparently is now "probably illegal" and justifies this kind of action?

Not just protests, violent protests. While I think the police’ action was overblown, I have little sympathy for violent politic groups (if it turns out to be correct).

Where does it say "violent" protests?

Re: Police search homes of Zwiebelfreunde board members and OpenLab in Augsburg

#126
post #98
post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Militarization of police is happening in Germany, as well: * Police special forces (SEK which are organized on the state level unlike GSG9 which are state police) have switched from blue to military-like green/brown uniforms (which have no tactical value, but that's another discussion). * Police in e.g. Berlin are changing their fully automatic weapons by phasing out the 9mm MP-5 and replacing it with 5.56x45 G36 ass…

1. The color of the uniform doesn't seem relevant to me. 2. The MP-5 is just as "military" as the G36. 3. I doubt that. Yes, there are water throwers that are highly armored, but that's nothing new, nor bad. 4. That sounds just a little biased. 5. That sounds not true. Certainly you should post sources for that extraordinary claim.

> 2. The MP-5 is just as "military" as the G36.

What the grandparent meant, I'd think, is the difference in the round. H&K MP5 uses 9mm Luger, pistol ammunition with significantly lower energy, range and penetration than 5.56x45mm NATO. One of those is suitable for police work too, one is only suitable for military or hunting.

This matters in urban areas, in police work, in use by inexperienced shooters (pretty much any policeman except for specialized units by definition, unless they train in their spare time, which is… somewhat difficult in Germany).

5.56x45 absolutely is "military" and equipping 5.56x45 riffles to regular police units doing patrol duty in cities absolutely is "militarization".

> 3. I doubt that. Yes, there are water throwers that are highly armored, but that's nothing new, nor bad.

The emphasis of that statement was on "more". While such hardware is sometimes needed, and so are "militarized" police units, the scope is limited. If (I don't know, nor the scale of it; but neither seem you) more of such equipment is used, "militarization" certainly would seem appropriate term for it.

Re: Police search homes of Zwiebelfreunde board members and OpenLab in Augsburg

#127
There were additional police raids carried out in Dortmund, Germany last night. They were targeting a server hosted at Wissenschaftsladen (free.de) but ended up searching other unrelated offices, including the rooms of CCC Dortmund.

https://heise.de/-4100194

Re: Police search homes of Zwiebelfreunde board members and OpenLab in Augsburg

#128
post #64

I found this part the most disturbing: > While searching the premises of the board members in Augsburg, Jena, Dresden, and Berlin, the police – on their own accord –decided to extend the search to premises also used by members of the CCC: the OpenLab in Augsburg. Here the officers were confronted with hackers in their natural habitat: substances to clean and etch circuit boards as well as hair bleach. After interpret…

Apparently there was a chemical formula for an explosive on a whiteboard.

Re: Police search homes of Zwiebelfreunde board members and OpenLab in Augsburg

#129
post #123
post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's the reason why there's an ongoing travel warning to the state of Bavaria. https://www.lawblog.de/index.php/archives/2017/07/20/bayern-... But now that some other german states took over the unconstitutional interpretation of federal law from Bavarian judges it became a state issue. There should be some oversight, when judges and police plot against constitutional rights.

That's not an official travel warning. It's just a blogpost where the title contains "Travel warning"

It's an experts travel warning.

Other experts travel warnings to Bavaria are for pregnant women, because they will have a hard time to find someone to deliver the baby. There's critical shortage.

Re: Police search homes of Zwiebelfreunde board members and OpenLab in Augsburg

#130
post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Calling for protests of a far-right conservative party's convention in Bavaria apparently is now "probably illegal" and justifies this kind of action?

Not just protests, violent protests. While I think the police’ action was overblown, I have little sympathy for violent politic groups (if it turns out to be correct).

I used to feel very much the same way about no sympathy for violent groups, but then I realise that some people feel (rightly or wrongly, is up for you to decide) that the democratic process does not or even cannot accomodate the kind of change they want to see - not because they see democracy as unable to acheive emancipatory goals, but because they see democracy as having been brought under the rule of capital and media rather than by an informed and active demos.

As my favourite social critic Marcuse wrote, when the democratic process is blocked, apparently undemocratic means may be required to unblock it.

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