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Apple Engineers Its Own Downfall with the Macbook Pro Keyboard

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Re: Apple Engineers Its Own Downfall with the Macbook Pro Keyboard

#121

Post by dingo_bat »

> In the meantime, let’s give some other companies a shot. Dell and HP have gorgeous, reliable, repairable flagship laptops that are getting rave reviews. Right now, I think they’ve done more to earn your business than Apple has.

The laptop mentioned in the "rave review" link is an elitebook 840 g5. I have been using the 840 g1 as my primary laptop for the last 4 years and it really is a sturdy device. The hardware is flawless, I haven't had a single issue with it. However, do yourself a favor and wipe it clean the moment you buy it, and install a fresh copy of windows. HP's added software is literally poison.

Re: Apple Engineers Its Own Downfall with the Macbook Pro Keyboard

#122

Post by aroman »

dheelus wrote: post #2

The entire Apple universe is bizarre. I've not used an Apple product except for the first gen iPhone but I did love it when I did. Since then, Apple has been behind the curve on every thing. I want to go back to using Apple since I really like their stance on privacy and security but feature wise they're usually 2-3 years behind a Samsung or a Microsoft. And now, this...

> Since then, Apple has been behind the curve on every thing.

There are many examples to the contrary. Apple's mobile chips are still way ahead of the competition. AirPods are the gold standard for that product category. FaceID had a substantial lead on the Android world for about a year.

Re: Apple Engineers Its Own Downfall with the Macbook Pro Keyboard

#123

Post by bdcravens »

joering2 wrote: post #78
phinnaeus wrote: post #3

Realistically, I just can't really see Apple fixing this by introducing a new keyboard design that's any thicker. As much as I would love to hear "We've heard your feedback on the keyboards and we've made some drastic changes to address them in our new Macbook Pro", it just doesn't seem like their style. What do others think they're going to do for their next release of laptops?

They will fix it. They have 100 billion dollars (!!!) in the bank to fix this issue, even if it takes next 100 years.

As for making the keyboard thicker, I doubt it. Once Apple makes a decision that dramatically alters their product in a way that users complain about, they generally don't backtrack. (floppy drive, CD drive, and Ethernet removal. Headphone jack removal. Losing Mac Pro traditional tower form factor. Flat design in iOS. etc etc etc)

Re: Apple Engineers Its Own Downfall with the Macbook Pro Keyboard

#124

Post by singlow »

rorykoehler wrote: post #112
mushufasa wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

System 76 (the small linux-only hardware manufacturer) just refreshed their Oryx Pro last month, which looks pretty capable and looks from afar to be really good build quality. https://system76.com/laptops/oryx I haven't found many/any reviews of it since the refresh -- does anyone on HN have one who can attest?

You can't be serious? The thing doesn't even have a centred trackpad.

It has anumeric keypad so the touchpad is in the correct place.

Re: Apple Engineers Its Own Downfall with the Macbook Pro Keyboard

#125

Post by rootusrootus »

spyckie2 wrote: post #52

This is NOT a big issue for consumers. Apple is great at keeping customers happy, their 4 year warranty extension for replacing the keyboard shows this. This IS a business issue. It has a quantifiable effect on profit margins for Apple's macbook, and I would look at it as an investor and see if it effects Apple's valuation in the short and long run. The Note 7 is a fantastic comparison - the complete recall did not h…

I'm not sure how much a longer warranty will help with keeping customers happy if they have to replace the keyboard every year and be out of service for a week or so while it happens. Heck, I was annoyed enough when my iPhone's battery started swelling and I had to spend two hours at the Apple Store to work through the replacement process. If I had to go without it entirely for a week, I'd have been nuclear angry and the fact that the repair was free would not have been too comforting.

Re: Apple Engineers Its Own Downfall with the Macbook Pro Keyboard

#126

Post by URSpider94 »

wpdev_63 wrote: post #44
awad wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

None whatsoever. Given Apple's very well known proclivity to elevate their design/product teams, it's probably more likely to have come from someone on that side of the fence anyway. But it's pretty popular to deride non-technical people (especially those in management) as know-nothings, so it's an easy reach.

It seems like a business thing where thinness=money. Can't be from any other angle.

This is absolutely not the way Apple works. "Business" people don't make decisions like this at Apple, they get made by the Industrial Design team, backed by the Product Design (mechanical engineering) team. Business people market the products, price the products, procure all of the components and make sure they are put together in the millions, but they absolutely do not set the design direction of the company.

Re: Apple Engineers Its Own Downfall with the Macbook Pro Keyboard

#127

Post by [deleted] »

sandmansandine wrote: post #71
yawn_010101 wrote: post #47

Having interfaced with Apple in a different way (apart from owning a new MBP and an iPhone X) I'd say the issue is, and continues to be, growing pains. They're certainly losing the lead in software engineer talent (giving it away to whom, I'm not sure). But the single most horrible experience I've had with Apple in the last year was trying to get software published on the App Store. That's a department that's so larg…

Serious question: Why didn't you mention the genders of the the people from "the "good old days"" but had to say over and over again that you were dealing with "Middle manager woman"

[deleted]

Re: Apple Engineers Its Own Downfall with the Macbook Pro Keyboard

#128

Post by oldcynic »

bdcravens wrote: post #115
oldcynic wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Short of fitting a keyboard condom, or iPad (no doubt called TouchBoard) where the keyboard used to be, what can they do? Make the battery thinner so they can get sane key travel back within the case without increasing overall thickness? So I expect to see a couple more releases of ultra thin keyboards with various fix mechanisms before they accept that rules of physics and dust apply to them too. :)

> what can they do? Make the battery thinner so they can get sane key travel back within the case without increasing overall thickness? Go back to previous thickness; it wasn't that bad, and thin for the most powerful portable they sell isn't necessarily a good thing. They could even couple it with advancements in battery tech to finally put 32GB on their laptop.

That's my preferred answer. We can have magsafe back too. :)

Sadly Apple rate thinness too highly, so I suspect they'll not give it up easily.

Re: Apple Engineers Its Own Downfall with the Macbook Pro Keyboard

#129

Post by foepys »

stcredzero wrote: post #120
yawn_010101 wrote: post #47

Having interfaced with Apple in a different way (apart from owning a new MBP and an iPhone X) I'd say the issue is, and continues to be, growing pains. They're certainly losing the lead in software engineer talent (giving it away to whom, I'm not sure). But the single most horrible experience I've had with Apple in the last year was trying to get software published on the App Store. That's a department that's so larg…

I'd say the issue is, and continues to be, growing pains. They're certainly losing the lead in software engineer talent (giving it away to whom, I'm not sure). I keep on interviewing recent Comp Sci graduates who have a 3.75 or a 4.0 and who can't tell me how to implement cycle detection -- to the extent that they could write a pseudocode function signature or some kind of concretely implementable design. Many of the…

> When my Macbook Pro is "locked" it flashes an image of the desktop screen just before switching to the login prompt.

It's the same thing on Android when you are switching users. How something like this can get QA is crazy to me. That is certainly not the way it's supposed to work.

Re: Apple Engineers Its Own Downfall with the Macbook Pro Keyboard

#130

Post by bdcravens »

JonathonW wrote: post #88
derefr wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't know why so many people are under the impression that they do thinness for thinness sake. They do thinness for lightness sake. The lighter your laptop (or tablet, or phone), the more you'll choose to not leave it behind but rather to just lug it around with you, and so the more places you'll have it and the more it'll be there to aid your productivity in random situations. [Also, for phones and tablets specif…

The Magic Keyboard actually doesn't use the same butterfly key mechanism: it's a scissor switch, albeit one that attempts to emulate some of the feel of the butterfly key keyboards (but with more travel).

I'm fortunate that 95% of my usage is on the Magic Keyboard. (I leaped at it when they came out with it in 10-key)
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