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The great video game exodus

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Re: The great video game exodus

#121

Post by jonhendry18 »

dgudkov wrote: post #69
wpietri wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One other parallel that interests me comes up in this article. Frank D’Angelo got into games because he loved them as a kid. And that's ultimately what guaranteed that he'd be treated poorly: so many people want to get into games that there's always another sucker to take his place. It's the same thing with acting. The number of people who want to be Hollywood actors is much smaller than the number of people who end…

The problem with Hollywood is that a pretty face and sexy body is valued more than good acting. When market value of a good is diminished to a single dimension (which is sexiness in case of Hollywood) it's a sign of market commoditization with price being the single advantage. And a highly commoditized market is a cruel place. Always.

"The problem with Hollywood is that a pretty face and sexy body is valued more than good acting."

Not every role calls for a pretty face and sexy body, and a person can have a long and comfortable career filling those roles.

Re: The great video game exodus

#122

Post by jonhendry18 »

brownbat wrote: post #117
jelly wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>The cornerstone of the case against unions isn't that we should stop respecting people, it's that unions are often no longer the best way to accomplish that goal. >Generally we need to move those solutions into less partial laws and courts, instead of creating another unchecked center of power over workers. Those most in need of the labor rights and respect unions traditionally afford are often those who have almost…

> Those most in need of the labor rights and respect unions traditionally afford are often those who have almost no access to the legal system. This seems like a powerful concern in theory but the facts make me more optimistic. I haven't found, say, OSHA to be toothless in practice, the DOL routinely brings aggressive overtime violations cases, and enforcement of the civil rights act against particularly southern hot…

" I haven't found, say, OSHA to be toothless in practice"

OSHA is toothless in practice. For large companies the fines are negligible.

https://www.ishn.com/articles/108358-osha-issues-tiny-penalt...

"OSHA has fined Tower King II Inc. $12,934 for the death of three workers who were attempting to install a new antenna on a communications tower in Miami. This is the maximum fine for one serious citation. "

"U.S. Rarely Seeks Charges For Deaths in Workplace"

https://www.nytimes.com/2003/12/22/us/us-rarely-seeks-charge...

Also, under Trump

Re: The great video game exodus

#123

Post by beachy »

acou_nPlusOne_t wrote: post #79

Even if you got experience, you will never get leverage in thise industry. The reason is the mythos of the gamedeveloper, drawing in new people (mostly young "I-want-to-make-a-game" idealists) with Stars in theire eyes. Its the same-thing, that allows Hollywood to abuse young actresses- who will not resist, because there "are millions more where you came from". Supply and demand. Idealists make for excellent rocket f…

"dump the husk"

Great, I can see it written in the spine of an evil management book!

Re: The great video game exodus

#124

Post by beachy »

thedailymail wrote: post #96
CalRobert wrote: post #91

Very, very related - "Don't do for money what others do for love" https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16792942

But isn't this the exact rule that Bill Gates violated when he moved to build a software business at a time when software development (for personal computers) was mainly a hobby?

Except he also loved it himself.

Re: The great video game exodus

#125

Post by jonhendry18 »

Guest9812398 wrote: post #82
apatters wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Great comment, as a slight tangent this line stood out to me: > There is probably something else I have never heard of happening right now which is what a young person ought to be doing. The way you point out these special opportunities that existed every decade is very interesting. The common theme is an exciting new industry with a talent shortage. I guess mine was getting into programming at the dawn of the Intern…

Social media, YouTube, Twitch influencer? I was one of those kids born in the mid 80s that grew up wanting to be a video game developer, while spending time online during the early stages of the internet. The idea of being an online influencer wasn't a thing that existed back then. Now, I hear that a lot of kids want to be YouTube stars when they get older, and there's obviously an endless stream of people trying to…

"Another one is mobile app development. 15-20 years ago I played around with a Palm Pilot, but no one considered app development as a career at that time. Now look at that industry."

Consumer expectations of software prices driven to zero by app stores, hard to make a living without being sleazy...

Re: The great video game exodus

#126

Post by ChristianGeek »

wpietri wrote: post #42
kraig911 wrote: post #22

I think the video game industry is literally run like the movie industry except there is no union to help the people who make the actual magic happen unlike say the entertainment industry. I realize that some hate unions but some things on this world literally could not happen unless we respect people, their time, and their families. Some things are worth more than money and I"m grateful for the games I get to play.…

One other parallel that interests me comes up in this article. Frank D’Angelo got into games because he loved them as a kid. And that's ultimately what guaranteed that he'd be treated poorly: so many people want to get into games that there's always another sucker to take his place. It's the same thing with acting. The number of people who want to be Hollywood actors is much smaller than the number of people who end…

It’s run more like the movie special effects industry. Watch the 30-minute “Life After Pi” documentary on YouTube.

Re: The great video game exodus

#127

Post by krowfromthewall »

pandaman wrote: post #61
wpietri wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One other parallel that interests me comes up in this article. Frank D’Angelo got into games because he loved them as a kid. And that's ultimately what guaranteed that he'd be treated poorly: so many people want to get into games that there's always another sucker to take his place. It's the same thing with acting. The number of people who want to be Hollywood actors is much smaller than the number of people who end…

This comparison goes further - the vast majority of people who want to be actors suck at being one. Or musicians. Or writers. Or any other artists. Few who have talent/luck/x-factor get money and fame, the rest wash out. Yet, somehow, it's believed that games are completely different and everyone who wants to make games is good enough to be able make living off it.

> Few who have talent/luck/x-factor get money and fame, the rest wash out.

This is an important point, most of the people who have the talent have spent their lives in their fields of talent and have little idea how to make money off of it and neither have the contacts to such people who can help them do it.

Re: The great video game exodus

#128

Post by SmellyGeekBoy »

apatters wrote: post #24
georgeecollins wrote: post #14

I grew up in a time when no one thought there was a chance to have a job making video games. I remember before I finished college, someone from EA called me about a shareware game I made (distributed on a floppy! imagine). In those days EA was a small company. The guy was trying to see if I wanted a job and I didn't even think to ask. Later, in grad school, another small company, Activision put a poster advertising j…

Great comment, as a slight tangent this line stood out to me: > There is probably something else I have never heard of happening right now which is what a young person ought to be doing. The way you point out these special opportunities that existed every decade is very interesting. The common theme is an exciting new industry with a talent shortage. I guess mine was getting into programming at the dawn of the Intern…

Or it may just be that these things aren't obvious until after the fact.

Re: The great video game exodus

#129

Post by brownbat »

jonhendry18 wrote: post #122
brownbat wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Those most in need of the labor rights and respect unions traditionally afford are often those who have almost no access to the legal system. This seems like a powerful concern in theory but the facts make me more optimistic. I haven't found, say, OSHA to be toothless in practice, the DOL routinely brings aggressive overtime violations cases, and enforcement of the civil rights act against particularly southern hot…

" I haven't found, say, OSHA to be toothless in practice" OSHA is toothless in practice. For large companies the fines are negligible. https://www.ishn.com/articles/108358-osha-issues-tiny-penalt... "OSHA has fined Tower King II Inc. $12,934 for the death of three workers who were attempting to install a new antenna on a communications tower in Miami. This is the maximum fine for one serious citation. " "U.S. Rarely…

US workplace deaths have fallen 70 percent since OSHA was formed.

It's not exactly like children losing arms to looms and being locked inside enflamed textile mills.

The fact there's still some work left to do doesn't imply we've made no progress.

It does show that unions haven't been able to comprehensively fix these issues either, though.

Re: The great video game exodus

#130

Post by tim333 »

kraig911 wrote: post #22

I think the video game industry is literally run like the movie industry except there is no union to help the people who make the actual magic happen unlike say the entertainment industry. I realize that some hate unions but some things on this world literally could not happen unless we respect people, their time, and their families. Some things are worth more than money and I"m grateful for the games I get to play.…

>got grants and investment from the government i.e. HellBlade

Googling that it seems to be a little more interesting:

>Biomedical research charity Wellcome Trust gave Ninja Theory a $395,000 grant to do research on mental illness, and that helped Ninja Theory make such an ambitious and research-based game on its own as an independent studio.

Wellcome Trust isn't a government organisation - it was set up by Sir Henry Wellcome who made a fortune in phrama.

Also Ninja Theory's history is pretty messy with bankruptcies, layoffs and deals gone wrong.

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