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Chinese Government Fabricates Social Media Posts for Strategic Distraction

gking.harvard.edu

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Re: Chinese Government Fabricates Social Media Posts for Strategic Distraction

#121

Post by hungryhobo »

fermienrico wrote: post #46
imbokodo wrote: post #7

I have seen the US government doing this a lot. Example, whitewashing the No Gun Ri massacre on Wikipedia ( http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=No_Gun_Ri&diff=185... ). That one is from US Central Command Multi National Security Transition Team Iraq. Also have seen similar edits on Wikipedia from Ft. Benning/WHISC/SOA and so forth.

This is a very typical response in a thread about China. Please stop comparing it with other nations. China's government and its modus operandi is a completely different ball game. It is not even the same sport. It only detracts from the discussion. If you would like to discuss US topics, please open a new thread and we are happy to have a conversation.

but if you are criticizing something while doing the same thing, it's just hypocrisy.

Re: Chinese Government Fabricates Social Media Posts for Strategic Distraction

#122

Post by hungryhobo »

fermienrico wrote: post #41
prmths wrote: post #10

And water is wet. Israel is at the forefront of it https://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2012/11/in... https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/world/2013/08/14/israel-... You mean the chinese are focused on propaganda as much as we are? As much as israel, britain, russia and everyone else? Amazing.

We are talking about A. But forget about A, look at B!!! It distracts from the core thread topic.

I'm criticizing A while doing A. You shouldn't mention I'm doing A!

Re: Chinese Government Fabricates Social Media Posts for Strategic Distraction

#123

Post by jonathanyc »

Lionsion wrote: post #120
jonathanyc wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I invite others to repeat the experiment for themselves. At this point I am starting to wonder if the Chinese government is playing both the pro and anti-Chinese sides in order to make both seem equally ridiculous. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Agent_provocateur I am seriously tired of this weird and new trend but I will continue to fight against it when I can because HN used to be better than this. EDIT: Just rememb…

> Also I find it quite telling that Lionsion still refuses to respond to any of my points. Ok, I'll bite. Here's my response: You need to go outside and take a walk , because your "points" have been off topic, literally paranoid, and bizarrely personal. You're accusing me of being an "agent provocateur" and either a Chinese or Russian troll. That's crazy talk and utter nonsense. Ignoring you isn't "telling," it's fru…

Note that he has still refused to respond to any of my points (for example, that most of us can juggle multiple issues in our head at the same time) and instead is now resorting to personal attacks and avoiding anything of substance by claiming that he is "frustrated," which is the exact same tactic he used last time.

I aim to leave my comments on this thread intact for the record, and I'm archiving this in case it proves relevant in the future.

EDIT: We're starting to see the bizarre inconsistencies in his position rear their head as well. He writes in the exact same comment that

> You're accusing me of being an "agent provocateur" and either a Chinese or Russian troll. That's crazy talk and utter nonsense.

and then that

> The truth is I'm a guy who was frustrated by a thread yesterday that was totally ruined by people who derailed it, perhaps like the 50 Cent Party would.

What sort of bizarre hedging is saying that people are just acting "perhaps like" paid Chinese trolls?

I am sorry if I have wasted others' time in reading these comments, but I am not exaggerating when I say that I think putting these things on the record is important for everyone.

Re: Chinese Government Fabricates Social Media Posts for Strategic Distraction

#124

Post by xkcd-sucks »

cirgue wrote: post #111
Aunche wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You get an uncanny valley feeling because the Western media always exaggerates the degree of how Orwellian or how much influence the Chinese government really has, so that they can get more clicks from people unfamiliar with China or who are mildly racist.

So I find this view really interesting because there is ultimately very little racism about dislike for the Chinese government. Most people’s misgivings have much more to do with the fact that a) no one wants to see fellow humans living in a distopia, and b) people look to China as an indication of where the world may be heading in the next few decades. Feeling apprehension about seeing an opaque, oligopolistic, and…

To someone that believes the CCP, "China" and the Han ethnicity are equivalent, it is racist to dislike the government. This equivalence is basically official policy, and also ambiguous phrases like "Chinese people" further such equivalence.

Re: Chinese Government Fabricates Social Media Posts for Strategic Distraction

#125

Post by Aunche »

aaron-lebo wrote: post #113
Aunche wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You get an uncanny valley feeling because the Western media always exaggerates the degree of how Orwellian or how much influence the Chinese government really has, so that they can get more clicks from people unfamiliar with China or who are mildly racist.

This is based on what?

Based on all the articles published about China in the past decade. Wired is especially egregious because they start a lot of misinformation.

In 2011, their headline of Foxconn was "1 Million workers, 90 Million Iphones, 17 suicides" despite the US suicide rate being much higher. Now, you still hear people talking about how terrible Apple and Foxconn are despite both being very desirable places to work for.

More recently, Wired released an article about China's plans for a social credit system. The article equated this with private credit scoring systems such as Sesame credit, even though they have nothing to do with each other. Yes, the social credit system is a bit extreme. Yes, Sesame credit is kind of creepy (but so is Facebook). No, China didn't decide to turn itself into a Brave New World.

Re: Chinese Government Fabricates Social Media Posts for Strategic Distraction

#126

Post by rapind »

pow_pp_-1_v wrote: post #97

Interesting. The whole thing is so simple. A government wants to get their message out quickly and efficiently before negative stories get too much attention. So, how to do it cost effectively? Simple, ask normal government employees to write pro-government posts on social media when they get time. Plus their career prospects improve if they do it. Finally a reminder on certain days about their duty to spread the goo…

I briefly worked at a (US) company who upon hiring you provided you with copy to post on both LinkedIn and Glassdoor. I genuinely liked the people so I didn't object or even mention how tasteless this was. Instead I just bailed.

Same shit IMO.

Re: Chinese Government Fabricates Social Media Posts for Strategic Distraction

#127

Post by Lionsion »

jonathanyc wrote: post #123
Lionsion wrote: post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Also I find it quite telling that Lionsion still refuses to respond to any of my points. Ok, I'll bite. Here's my response: You need to go outside and take a walk , because your "points" have been off topic, literally paranoid, and bizarrely personal. You're accusing me of being an "agent provocateur" and either a Chinese or Russian troll. That's crazy talk and utter nonsense. Ignoring you isn't "telling," it's fru…

Note that he has still refused to respond to any of my points (for example, that most of us can juggle multiple issues in our head at the same time) and instead is now resorting to personal attacks and avoiding anything of substance by claiming that he is "frustrated," which is the exact same tactic he used last time. I aim to leave my comments on this thread intact for the record, and I'm archiving this in case it p…

> What sort of bizarre hedging is saying that people are just acting "perhaps like" paid Chinese trolls?

You need to re-read my comment, especially the sentence after the one you partially quoted. What I was getting at was that someone who inadvertently behaves like a propagandist should re-evaluate their behavior and modify it, because it's destructive (if it wasn't destructive, why would the propagandist do it?). For instance, someone pushing hyper-partisan memes on Facebook should stop because Russians agents literally do that same thing as a disruption tactic.

> but I am not exaggerating when I say that I think putting these things on the record is important for everyone.

I have nothing to hide: https://web.archive.org/web/20180518222349/https://news.ycom...

Anyway, you are not acting like a stable, sensible person. You're getting too worked up. Please, take a break. Do something relaxing or fun. This is not a productive derail that anyone else would benefit from.

Re: Chinese Government Fabricates Social Media Posts for Strategic Distraction

#128

Post by qiqing »

aaron-lebo wrote: post #91
qiqing wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

50c party is widely accepted as real a thing as Russian troll farms during the election, but I'd be skeptical if HN is a target. (I don't think you need an academic paper to 'prove' it's a real thing.) The reason you read defensive comments on HN (even from me) is due to how easily anti-China criticism slides from legitimate policy discussion into raw, tribal racism. I simply feel it is my duty to call out anti-Chine…

In the interest of productive discussion, what do you perceive as racism? It's rare that I come across comments about China that are legitimately racist on HN. I get some people are and some discussion is that, but more than anything I see genuine concern about how the government is acting and given how the government controls that nation, that's where the criticism can seem so wholesale. But what do you feel is a ra…

> It's rare that I come across comments about China that are legitimately racist on HN

Perhaps your threshold has a different set-point from mine (and from people who are the target of similar comments). I include conscious and unconscious bias, and Chinese people are just as capable of anti-China racism as women are capable of being sexist.*

The same people who criticize the Chinese government for not allowing Facebook and Google to operate in China (even after Cambridge Analytica) will defend not allowing Huawei to be sold by carriers in the U.S. The same people who, when it is pointed out that Foxconn's suicide rate is lower than the population average, will say that any non-zero number is too high. Do they change their tune if it's pointed out that Foxconn is a Taiwanese company and not a Mainland one? You know the type -- in a later breath, they will just as easily say that Chinese people can't / won't innovate, and can only copy.

There was a story in Sheryl Sandberg's _Lean In_ about an experiment where 2 resumes were being considered for a police chief: one candidate had more solid work experience, and the other had more impressive education history. The 2 experimental conditions assigned a male or a female name to each resume, and most subjects (including female participants) chose the male resume, and they'd say it was because of work experience or education that they picked it. If your threshold for sexism includes that, and you adjust your racism threshold similarly, you'll find that a lot of comments have this ... _unconscious bias_ for some reason.

* Criticism of what the Cultural Revolution has produced does not fall under the same umbrella. No one likes what it produced, even the leadership currently in power in China, who suffered in their youth.

Edit: comment in threads down below include ">his stupid uneducated bimbo of a wife" in reference to China's first lady. Here's what CNN has to say about her:

"Peng is arguably more famous than her husband. She has millions of fans... She is a major general in the People's Liberation Army and is China's AIDS ambassador to the United Nations." http://news.blogs.cnn.com/2011/01/20/thursdays-intriguing-pe...

Re: Chinese Government Fabricates Social Media Posts for Strategic Distraction

#129

Post by jonathanyc »

Lionsion wrote: post #127
jonathanyc wrote: post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Note that he has still refused to respond to any of my points (for example, that most of us can juggle multiple issues in our head at the same time) and instead is now resorting to personal attacks and avoiding anything of substance by claiming that he is "frustrated," which is the exact same tactic he used last time. I aim to leave my comments on this thread intact for the record, and I'm archiving this in case it p…

> What sort of bizarre hedging is saying that people are just acting "perhaps like" paid Chinese trolls? You need to re-read my comment, especially the sentence after the one you partially quoted. What I was getting at was that someone who inadvertently behaves like a propagandist should re-evaluate their behavior and modify it, because it's destructive (if it wasn't destructive, why would the propagandist do it?). F…

> You need to re-read my comment, especially the sentence after the one you partially quoted.

You're not fooling anyone when you say that you're not accusing people of being propagandists, but rather that they're just "perhaps like" them.

> Anyway, you are not acting like a stable, sensible person. You're getting too worked up.

Says the guy whose two month old account has 75% of its comments about one topic, but nice try. I also wonder if you are subconsciously channeling some tactics from the past:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Political_abuse_of_psychiatry_...

EDIT: And of course, recalling Cato, I will end by nothing that you still have not responded to anything I've said but rather have devolved to calling people who disagree with you crazy. Gee, it's almost like you're just trying to divide people instead of actually trying to have a good faith discussion.

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