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As Kubernetes grows, a startup ecosystem develops in its wake

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Re: As Kubernetes grows, a startup ecosystem develops in its wake

#121

Post by sitkack »

atombender wrote: post #13
rubiquity wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> and not something that wasn't designed to create jobs for consultants. I wouldn't be so sure about that. Consulting companies are drawn to operational complexity, of which Kubernetes has a lot of, like bears are to honey. https://kubernetes.io/partners/ https://www.google.com/search?q=kubernetes+consulting&ie=utf...

Kubernetes came out of the engineering team at Google. It was created by engineers for engineers. The fact that it's being exploited by enterprise consulting types doesn't change that premise.

Just because Google made something doesn't mean it has sound engineering behind it. Eng at Google is also rewarded for complexity.

Re: As Kubernetes grows, a startup ecosystem develops in its wake

#122

Post by sitkack »

robbyt wrote: post #46
k8sftl wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Kube is too complex. To derive any kind of business value from it you need highly skilled people. The winner of the container orchestration battle will be the one that simplifies, not complicates. To me this is just another hype train, like TensorFlow/Caffe before it, and like Hadoop/Spark before that. These tools all have their uses in specific, non-common cases, but for your average business they are a net loss in…

Too complex compared to what? All other commonly used web infrastructure is complex in various ways. In my experience building and running Kubernetes clusters for Fortune 500 companies is that actually it's much simpler, it's just different from traditional infrastructure. Different != Complex.

Singley rooted Debs or RPMS with a nice single symlink init system and a log shipping system that is unified across the app stack will get you 90% of the way there. Add in a build system that ships "the world" inside your deb and you are 99% of the way there. Add in a cluster wide config system and you are 100% of the way there.

K8S forces people to use an algebra, the expression of that algebra can take many forms. Containers are _just_ trees of processes with ... contained separation boundaries.

Re: As Kubernetes grows, a startup ecosystem develops in its wake

#123

Post by techcofounder »

statusgraph wrote: post #112
ex3ndr wrote: post #60

Does anyone knows a very good CD for k8s? I found that only bitbucket deployments is a good one in terms of simplicity of managing deployments (just like Heroku). Most vendors forces me to use their crappy CI solution for doing CD. Why they want me to migrate to your (very limited) build system? I can pay you for a fancy dashboard, but please, allow me to use whatever i need to build my software. There are many optio…

We tried spinnaker and are now using Weave ( https://www.weave.works/ ). It works pretty well, actually. In particular we like that it stores all state in a git repo which is automatically updated. We have our own monitoring stack, though, so don't use the additional prometheus integrations

Would love to understand more about why you ended up choosing Weave.

Re: As Kubernetes grows, a startup ecosystem develops in its wake

#124

Post by dsnuh »

k8sftl wrote: post #41
atombender wrote: post #3

Kubernetes is one of those rare cases where the industry is rallying around a technologically sound platform that emerged from the trenches, and not something that was designed to create jobs for consultants. It's great. Right now, there's a bunch of fairly traditional players such as Red Hat, but none of them are in a position to mess it up. What I'm waiting for, though, is for a big player to do a modern, clean "Ku…

Kube is too complex. To derive any kind of business value from it you need highly skilled people. The winner of the container orchestration battle will be the one that simplifies, not complicates. To me this is just another hype train, like TensorFlow/Caffe before it, and like Hadoop/Spark before that. These tools all have their uses in specific, non-common cases, but for your average business they are a net loss in…

I wonder if the "It's simple, just use kops!" etc, have tried to deploy kubernetes to anything other than a cloud service provider. Setting up a production grade Kubernetes cluster integrated on-prem with in-house development and operations teams is no small feat for anything other than a toy deployment. Kubernetes has benefits for some use cases, but I think some of the HN crowd underestimate the rather large investment of time and energy it can take to get there.

Re: As Kubernetes grows, a startup ecosystem develops in its wake

#125

Post by techcofounder »

outworlder wrote: post #69
ex3ndr wrote: post #60

Does anyone knows a very good CD for k8s? I found that only bitbucket deployments is a good one in terms of simplicity of managing deployments (just like Heroku). Most vendors forces me to use their crappy CI solution for doing CD. Why they want me to migrate to your (very limited) build system? I can pay you for a fancy dashboard, but please, allow me to use whatever i need to build my software. There are many optio…

Closest I've got was Spinnaker. Support for K8s was very hit and miss (some concepts did not translate properly), but it is getting much better now.

I assume you mean the Spinnaker/K8s v1 provider abstracted away the K8s primatives. The new v2 provider allows you to deploy manifests and supports all K8s objects.

Re: As Kubernetes grows, a startup ecosystem develops in its wake

#126

Post by alexnewman »

k8sftl wrote: post #53
merb wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

k8s is not complex. You basically can spin up a cluster in no time on CoreOS via pxe/ipxe. You do not even need all these fancy stuff around k8s. You only need to ssh into your machine to start bootkube (on a single machine) or later to update the kubelet (can be done with ansible). Everything else can be managed via kubectl.

CoreOS, PXE, bootkube, kubelet, kubectl. And you say it's not complex? I don't think you and I will ever agree on the meaning of that word.

If he's talking PXE, he's talking bootstraping bare metal. How exactly would you do it simpler?

Re: As Kubernetes grows, a startup ecosystem develops in its wake

#127

Post by alexnewman »

I think the real advantage of k8s is the ease to scale bare metal. This just isn't that important for the next 5 years or so. On the other hand, azure and gke make k8s easy enough if you are already using docker. Containers on the hand, the developer experience is still very mixed. OSX still doesn't have great container support and I honestly can only guess how well windows can handle my docker-compose workflow.

One great k8s tool I like is kompose. It allows our devs a very similar interface around secrets, networks, volumes, etc.

Re: As Kubernetes grows, a startup ecosystem develops in its wake

#128

Post by manigandham »

daxfohl wrote: post #19
atombender wrote: post #3

Kubernetes is one of those rare cases where the industry is rallying around a technologically sound platform that emerged from the trenches, and not something that was designed to create jobs for consultants. It's great. Right now, there's a bunch of fairly traditional players such as Red Hat, but none of them are in a position to mess it up. What I'm waiting for, though, is for a big player to do a modern, clean "Ku…

Many of the k8s founders have left google. Google doesn't use it internally. I'd actually start looking away from gcp at this point for k8s, given google's history of dropping stuff that they're bored with.

Google does not just drop enterprise products and services. They definitely have a problem with consumer (messaging) apps, but that's completely different.

Re: As Kubernetes grows, a startup ecosystem develops in its wake

#129

Post by manigandham »

ex3ndr wrote: post #60

Does anyone knows a very good CD for k8s? I found that only bitbucket deployments is a good one in terms of simplicity of managing deployments (just like Heroku). Most vendors forces me to use their crappy CI solution for doing CD. Why they want me to migrate to your (very limited) build system? I can pay you for a fancy dashboard, but please, allow me to use whatever i need to build my software. There are many optio…

Highly recommend Buddy: https://buddy.works/

Great container-native pipelines and has good integration with Kubernetes, along with GKE specific hooks and the ability to run any kubectl command.

Re: As Kubernetes grows, a startup ecosystem develops in its wake

#130

Post by jasonvorhe »

daxfohl wrote: post #19
atombender wrote: post #3

Kubernetes is one of those rare cases where the industry is rallying around a technologically sound platform that emerged from the trenches, and not something that was designed to create jobs for consultants. It's great. Right now, there's a bunch of fairly traditional players such as Red Hat, but none of them are in a position to mess it up. What I'm waiting for, though, is for a big player to do a modern, clean "Ku…

Many of the k8s founders have left google. Google doesn't use it internally. I'd actually start looking away from gcp at this point for k8s, given google's history of dropping stuff that they're bored with.

Coming from KubeCon Europe, I can confirm that Google is anything but bored from k8s.

Google's spring-cleaning has nothing to do with their open source projects. Kubernetes is one of their most widely used open source "products" and the industry is creating an incredible community around it with several big players that could easily jump in to take over project leadership and financing.

It is actually a good thing that some k8s founding members left Google because they already got what they wanted to achieve and went on to work on stuff that Google probably wouldn't have prioritized as much, see Ark and kssonnet.

Kubernetes is IMHO the platform for cloud native applications for the next 5+ years.

Not wanting to use it because Google dropped everyone's darling (Reader) is rather naive.

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