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NYC Renters Paid Extra $616M Thanks to Airbnb, Study Says

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Re: NYC Renters Paid Extra $616M Thanks to Airbnb, Study Says

#121

Now do it for San Diego. The last 2 years, the prices have gone absolutely bonkers and landlords have ridiculous demands based on inflated airbnb prices they can charge to out of towners. I really like Airbnb, but these effects are real and they suck.

Not to be difficult, but what do you like about AirBnB? There are benefits to it, but you also seem to understand the problems specific to it. Why do you feel the benefits outweigh the problems created?

Re: NYC Renters Paid Extra $616M Thanks to Airbnb, Study Says

#122
post #50

If a few thousand airbnb units cost renters that much money, imagine how much renters would save if more and taller buildings were allowed to be built!

Zoning laws can only control what developers choose to build so much.

If you look at the rezoned mixed use districts like the garment & flower district and the lower east side, they've been flooded with hotel development (in some cases clusters of hotels on the same block) because it's more profitable.

Re: NYC Renters Paid Extra $616M Thanks to Airbnb, Study Says

#123

The exact same true is for hotels, only worse. ANYTHING that uses up space that is not used for housing is by definition increasing rent for everyone. Hotels have a much bigger effect than Airnb because you'll find hotels in all of the most expensive and densely populated cities. If you replaced all hotels with regular rental units, think about how much rents would go down. To be more accurate, the report should say:…

Hotels are taxed differently. They also tend to be somewhat denser than apartments, since they typically include only bedroom and bathroom, not kitchen or living room. And people are often willing to put up with a smaller hotel room than bedroom, since they only need space for a few days' worth of stuff there.

Re: NYC Renters Paid Extra $616M Thanks to Airbnb, Study Says

#124
post #50

If a few thousand airbnb units cost renters that much money, imagine how much renters would save if more and taller buildings were allowed to be built!

Does NYC impose heavy restrictions on the height of buildings? I've never been there, but they seem tall to me.

Accidentally, in most cases. It's the parking requirements that do it. For every X number of units, you need to guarantee Y parking spaces. Building more parking lots is poor real estate utilization and underground parking is prohibitively expensive. This is why developers build hotels instead of housing when the neighborhood can't absorb more parking (which is nearly always).

Re: NYC Renters Paid Extra $616M Thanks to Airbnb, Study Says

#125

The finding is somewhat interesting on its own but I don't really see why it matters all that much. No one likes paying higher rent and I can see rent increases as being particularly hard on the poor, so that's bad. But I'm not sure interfering with these micro-leases is the best solution. It makes more sense to me to focus on how we can expedite construction of safe, quality, affordable housing. That would help addr…

We can totally crush people turning rental properties into unsanctioned hotels while allowing people to occasionally rent out a bedroom and work on other solutions to affordable housing.

Just fine renter and airbnb 100x what they are liable to earn in the former case and shockingly such a case will trivially go away.

Those caught with their pants down because they invested a bunch of money in illegal hotels can sell and roll that money into another illegal enterprise of their choosing that is less trivial to regulate out of existence.

Re: NYC Renters Paid Extra $616M Thanks to Airbnb, Study Says

#126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The odd thing is that AirBnB’s entire value proposition to hosts is that it increases realizable income from the property they control and make available through AirBnB; if true, especially in the presence of supply constraints, this has to increase market clearing prices. They are in a position where what they need hosts to believe is directly at odds with what they want policymakers (including people voting directl…

Yes, but it will also increase occupants and the experience of occupants. If you put a fancy restaurant that sells gourmet popcorn, you raise the price of popcorn in general, and you can also increase the amount of people that eat popcorn.

> Yes, but it will also increase occupants

It will increase mobility of occupants, but it probably won't increase occupants (which is equivalent to decreasing homelessness) much, though the decrease in short-term rental pricing could reduce transitional homelessness (but the increase in long-term residential prices could also increase the more durable kind of homelessness)

Re: NYC Renters Paid Extra $616M Thanks to Airbnb, Study Says

#128
post #75

Unfortunately, Airbnb is probably the only way a middle-class family can earn money on investment properties. No one in their right mind would rent a $1,000,000 condo for (1% rule) $10,000.

If you have a million dollar condo in addition to your primary residence then you aren't middle class by any common sense definition of the word middle.

Re: NYC Renters Paid Extra $616M Thanks to Airbnb, Study Says

#129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think in general, it's very difficult if not impossible to realistically explore the counterfactual of "what would this property be if not for Airbnb". However, in my neighborhood long term 12 month lease rentals most definitely seem to be being turned into Airbnb rentals. I live in Tahoe, so this isn't necessarily going to generalize to non-tourist areas. In the last five years there has been a steady conversion -…

Have the anti-rental things Tahoe done anything to curtail the local movement or is that not in your neighborhood? https://www.sfgate.com/travel/article/Study-Tahoe-s-Airbnb-l...

Tahoe has a surprising number of jurisdictions! I'm on the Nevada side, so I don't have personal experience with the SLT enforcement.

Here there seems to be a fair amount of teeth gnashing about airbnb -- there are clearly more people in the neighborhoods and rentals for locals are now hard to find. But the homeowners think it's raising property values and are kind of happy that if they ever leave Tahoe there is now a pretty straitforward way to hold on to their property. The end result is not much happening.

The SLT ordinance is addressing the what I think is the major fear for many -- that a nearby house will become an unbearable party house. I think pretty much all of the Tahoe jurisdictions have moved quickly to ensure that doesn't happen. In our neighborhood, I've been told the sheriff responds in minutes to a noise complaint, and that the visit results in fairly draconian fines to the property owner.

Re: NYC Renters Paid Extra $616M Thanks to Airbnb, Study Says

#130
post #66

It's important to look under the surface of what this is saying. This boils down to an extra 77 dollars per person per year, so basically this amounts to an extra 10 dollars per month for any given unit.

Just curious but what's your math here? If you divide by number of people in Manhattan (8.538 million) you get roughly $72.14 per person, but this isn't really accurate since not everyone in Manhattan rents- maybe you're a kid, or you own a co-op, or you're homeless. You'd really need to divide the value by the number of rented units in NYC to figure out the average raise in rents per apartment, and even then that wo…

There are under 2 million residents of Manhattan. 8.5 million people living in NYC, tho. NYC is all 5 boroughs, not just Manhattan.
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