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E-waste recycler loses appeal on computer restore disks, must serve prison term

washingtonpost.com

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Re: E-waste recycler loses appeal on computer restore disks, must serve prison term

#121

Post by cptskippy »

Hasz wrote: post #14

From the article "“These sales of counterfeit operating systems,” Microsoft lawyer Bonnie MacNaughton wrote to the judge, “displaced Microsoft’s potential sales of genuine operating systems.” But Lundgren’s disks had no licenses and were intended for computers that already had licenses." and even worse, "Hurley decided Lundgren’s 28,000 restore disks had a value of $700,000, and that dollar amount qualified Lundgren…

How does Lundgren's restore disk work?

Most restore disks I've used from OEMs have an OEM Key hardcoded on the disk so the user doesn't have to type in the license key on the side of their machine. These Restore Disks are permitted if the OEM is a Licensed Distributor, Lundgren was not a licensed distributor.

The ISO files that Microsoft distributes require the user to input a key.

His whole argument is questionable:

He is trying to reduce e-waste by manufacturing discs, which he says people lose or throw away, and then selling those disks to the very people who lost or threw away their disc originally?

He says the discs are used by people who feel comfortable restoring a restore crashed or wiped machines but who don't or can't create the restore media themselves. Microsoft's media creation tool is dead simple, you run it and tell it where to create the media.

Re: E-waste recycler loses appeal on computer restore disks, must serve prison term

#122

Post by usefulcat »

ballenf wrote: post #100
pc86 wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not speaking about this case specifically, but the existence of other more serious and/or violent crimes does not negate the impact of small crimes. You can't just say "yeah well there's a lot of unsolved murders so what about those?" as some sort of indictment against police officers enforcing laws.

It's one thing if they could have proven the case without this fabricated sting. Setting that up just to put the nails in the coffin of someone trying to do good seems pretty evil to me. Why the hell didn't the prosecutors just ring up the guy and say, "Hey, Microsoft is pretty pissed about these disks. If you don't [destroy them / remove their logo] we'll have to prosecute you." They have exactly that kind of discre…

Incentives. If they successfully prosecute him, they look good (at least in some dimensions, since it is their job to prosecute people). I doubt that is the case, or at least not as much, if they merely dissuade him without taking any legal action.

Re: E-waste recycler loses appeal on computer restore disks, must serve prison term

#123

Post by garmaine »

justherefortart wrote: post #87

Fuck you US Government is more like it. Oh, and the assholes that vote these idiots into office over and over again. I don't care if it's Pelosi/Boxer or Inhofe/Cruz, they all are pieces of shit.

You think the other name on the ballot would have been any different?

Re: E-waste recycler loses appeal on computer restore disks, must serve prison term

#124

Post by pc86 »

ballenf wrote: post #100
pc86 wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not speaking about this case specifically, but the existence of other more serious and/or violent crimes does not negate the impact of small crimes. You can't just say "yeah well there's a lot of unsolved murders so what about those?" as some sort of indictment against police officers enforcing laws.

It's one thing if they could have proven the case without this fabricated sting. Setting that up just to put the nails in the coffin of someone trying to do good seems pretty evil to me. Why the hell didn't the prosecutors just ring up the guy and say, "Hey, Microsoft is pretty pissed about these disks. If you don't [destroy them / remove their logo] we'll have to prosecute you." They have exactly that kind of discre…

I agree with you on that point, for sure. Prosecutors make their bones on pleas and convictions, not on solving the problem without going to court. I wish there was a way to allow prosecutors to do that without hurting their record, but I'm not sure there is.

Re: E-waste recycler loses appeal on computer restore disks, must serve prison term

#126

Post by cornholio »

scott00 wrote: post #97
pweissbrod wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I dont quite understand the basic legal details behind this. Say I buy a computer with windows pre-installed that means the OS license cost is bundled in to the price of the machine. Say I have a computer without windows, or maybe an older cheaper version of windows. Is it correct that these restore disks arent a utility to get a free new copy of windows? Just trying to understand

There's two stages of the legal process that are important to understand here: what was the illegal act, and what is the sentence for that illegal act. The illegal act was a copyright violation: he made and distributed copies of copyrighted material without the consent of the copyright owner. I would be inclined to argue that his use was fair use, but based on what I know about copyright law, that argument is probabl…

> (2) OEM Windows disks that Microsoft sells for $25. These come with a license (unlike the defendant's disks) but do come with a physical disk.

I'm confused, what exactly are these, where can a private individual buy one? A Windows license key with (no media) is priced around $120, while an OEM license with no support is in the $50-$90 area, depending on the business relationship with Microsoft. If individuals were able to legally get a Windows license by "restoring" it for $25, it would be a riot, nobody would pay the retail price.

But if that $25 option is not available to consumers, then it makes the comparison to the free disks even more tenuous, and the fair use issue stronger, especially in light of the electronic waste issue. There is a fundamental social value that is being protected.

Re: E-waste recycler loses appeal on computer restore disks, must serve prison term

#127

Post by Wingwing »

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #86
reimertz wrote: post #30

As a CEO, you can have a business model that is ethically and morally wrong without getting into jail. As a CEO, you can ignore obvious security flaws leading to 100 million social security numbers getting leaked without getting into jail. As a CEO, you can sexually harass your employees without getting into jail. Try and save the world by repurpose old computers, causing one of the biggest companies in the world to…

> you can have a business model that is ethically and morally wrong without getting into jail Rule of law. You go to jail for breaking the law, not for being unethical or immoral. Societies which forget this distinction fall fast. (Legislation, turning morals and ethics into laws, is the intermediating process your complaint more properly addresses.)

The law is a complete joke. That's what things like this tell us.

Re: E-waste recycler loses appeal on computer restore disks, must serve prison term

#128

Post by 24gttghh »

jrochkind1 wrote: post #91
24gttghh wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I really hope he appeals this.

Friend, the very headline, and HN post title, is "E-waste recycler Eric Lundgren loses appeal…". He did appeal it. He lost.

Technically it could be appealed to the SCOTUS but that is unlikely :(

Re: E-waste recycler loses appeal on computer restore disks, must serve prison term

#129

Post by lukeschlather »

jaclaz wrote: post #90
sailfast wrote: post #43

It's really frustrating when reporters don't link to decisions so we can see the logic behind the rulings. Found what I believe is the opinion in case you're interested: https://www.courtlistener.com/pdf/2018/04/11/united_states_v... Here's the original request for appeal: https://regmedia.co.uk/2018/02/20/lundgrenappeal.pdf

Thanks for the link to the decision. It seems to me like the key point is: >In particular, the court noted that it did not find it reasonable to believe that Lundgren and his codefendant had spent at least around $80,000 to create discs that had no value. Since the idea that they had "no value" was not accepted and since the CD's had actually the MS and Dell logo's the Law shifts the value (and thus the sentencing) f…

It's more like they were real Gucci bags, but the Gucci label had worn off and he's getting prison time for restoring the label.

Re: E-waste recycler loses appeal on computer restore disks, must serve prison term

#130

Post by eof »

garmaine wrote: post #123
justherefortart wrote: post #87

Fuck you US Government is more like it. Oh, and the assholes that vote these idiots into office over and over again. I don't care if it's Pelosi/Boxer or Inhofe/Cruz, they all are pieces of shit.

You think the other name on the ballot would have been any different?

You think there were only two names on the ballot?
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