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MIT Researchers Have Developed a ‘System for Dream Control’

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Re: MIT Researchers Have Developed a ‘System for Dream Control’

#121

Post by fudged71 »

danielskogly wrote: post #91
squeaky-clean wrote: post #20

Sleep As Android can do this same thing. It uses your microphone/accelerometer to sense motion and estimate when you're entering REM sleep. It's not as advanced as the more complicated set up here, but anecdotally I can say it works fairly well. You can set it to play a trigger phrase when you enter REM sleep to help train lucid dreaming. I've never done it though because they default trigger phrase included is downr…

I still remember being scared awake by that audio loop many years ago. Lucid dreaming had caught my attention for a while, and when they released the lucid dreaming feature I thought I'd give it a go. The media volume on my phone being set to maximum definitively did not help when that creepy voice wrought me out of sleep and I haven't tried it since. I wonder if it actually works, but can't really try it out nowaday…

I had the exact same experience, it was really freaky and I had to turn it off.

Re: MIT Researchers Have Developed a ‘System for Dream Control’

#122

Post by fnordsensei »

This is great. The device is interesting. I've accomplished the equivalent thing manually by putting my elbow on the bed and keep my arm straight up. As I'm falling asleep, the arm would fall down, bringing me mildly back to consciousness again. It works, and is gentler than using steel balls, but the method used here is even more refined.

The even more notable aspect of the story is that it seems lucid dreaming and related phenomena is finally moving firmly into the realm of reality in the minds of sleep/dream researchers, if this article is to be any indication. Though I'm aware that lucid dreaming was technically proven to be real ages ago, the notion that it's not seems to have stuck.

Side note; one of my favourite things to do when flying is to induce a hypnagogic state and then compose, and simultaneously listen to, music in my mind. Or rather, have music be composed almost automatically with gentle nudges from me using emotions (it's hard to put into words). It requires noise cancelling headphones and either white noise or a good binaural beats track. And of course, I don't always end up in the correct state of mind to be able to do it.

The music I hear in this state is incredibly beautiful. I'm no musician however, and I've never been able to "bring anything back" that's been of any significance.

Re: MIT Researchers Have Developed a ‘System for Dream Control’

#123

Post by gregpilling »

marshray wrote: post #107
sangnoir wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Or maybe I’m just the only one not just you - I didn't have a name for it, but my brain pretty much does free-association in that phase. On more than one occasion I've jolted awake because I've had a earth-shattering revelation, only to realise my idea was already invented (hot air balloon) or pretty ridiculous (like having your toaster burn the day's agenda on your toast). I can't help but wonder: how many multi-m…

> having your toaster burn the day's agenda on your toast Shut up and take my money!

a laser and a galvo should do it

Re: MIT Researchers Have Developed a ‘System for Dream Control’

#124

Post by goodroot »

be_jenk wrote: post #63
goodroot wrote: post #47

Fascinating. I have a keen interest in Shamanism and more patience for "woo-woo" here than most. Navigating your dream state is a mighty Shamanic concept. It is one of two Shamanic practices that people here will entertain. The other is the idea of the memory castle. New technological approaches like this will help us peel back the veil of the tangible, 'ordinary' realities of which we are comfortable. The world will…

I would love some reading recommendations on these topics if you would be willing to recommend anything.

Hello!

I have written a blog on this topic. It relates to work I have done working with Shaman and plant medicines in Peru. Here you go: https://goodroot.ca/post/2018/03/06/the-garden-axiom/ !

Re: MIT Researchers Have Developed a ‘System for Dream Control’

#125

Post by optimalsolver »

fnordsensei wrote: post #122

This is great. The device is interesting. I've accomplished the equivalent thing manually by putting my elbow on the bed and keep my arm straight up. As I'm falling asleep, the arm would fall down, bringing me mildly back to consciousness again. It works, and is gentler than using steel balls, but the method used here is even more refined. The even more notable aspect of the story is that it seems lucid dreaming and…

What do you do when your arm falls back on the bed? Do you put it up again? And how many times do you do this before getting into the desired mental state?

Re: MIT Researchers Have Developed a ‘System for Dream Control’

#126

Post by mjburgess »

psyc wrote: post #89
mjburgess wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the converse is true, no? That the shamanic practices will be pealed back, to reveal the familiar reality of scientific investigation. I've had many lucid dreams, sleep paralysis, etc. "Navigating your dream state" seems really just like a lucid dream. You're pretty much able to create a life-like world at whim in a lucid dream. The ability of the mind to hallucinate sensation in great depth is tremendous, an…

The advantage to opening yourself to what is loosely called 'right brained' thinking, is that you don't have to wait around for someone to publish a rigorous study in a journal about the subject you're seeking a solution for. If I waited around for science as much as some HN users imply they do, I'd be paralyzed and barely ever make progress on things that matter to me. I believe great scientists often start in woovi…

The generation of hypotheses is "right-brained thinking" in these terms.

Science is a process which includes the creative step of imagining a solution/explanation.

The differentiation between science and "systematic religous doctrine" is not in the character of the people, nor particularly in the way they think. Only that the scientist has an additional goal/duty to test his explanations.

Re: MIT Researchers Have Developed a ‘System for Dream Control’

#127

Post by fnordsensei »

optimalsolver wrote: post #125
fnordsensei wrote: post #122

This is great. The device is interesting. I've accomplished the equivalent thing manually by putting my elbow on the bed and keep my arm straight up. As I'm falling asleep, the arm would fall down, bringing me mildly back to consciousness again. It works, and is gentler than using steel balls, but the method used here is even more refined. The even more notable aspect of the story is that it seems lucid dreaming and…

What do you do when your arm falls back on the bed? Do you put it up again? And how many times do you do this before getting into the desired mental state?

Yeah, exactly. Sorry, the description was a bit rough.

Essentially; lie down on your back. Raise your arm from the elbow as if you were about to point to the ceiling, while keeping the elbow resting on the bed. When you are about to fall asleep, the arm falls down, waking you up (hopefully).

The point is to give you the opportunity to sort of traverse back and forth over the line separating waking and sleeping consciousness quickly.

The goal is first of all to be able to "spot" the state of mind. Since it's usually just something we pass by on the way to sleep, we don't normally have a very clear sense of what the state is like. Therefore it's hard to hold for any amount of time. Familiarizing yourself with the characteristics of the state of mind helps when trying to hold on to it.

Which is the eventual goal: to remain in the state for a longer time before waking up or falling asleep.

The arm thing is rigged to wake you up rather than letting you fall asleep. This is to increase chances that you're able to bring something useful back to full waking consciousness. If you have a very successful session in the liminal state, but then you fall asleep, chances are you won't remember the details later on.

A friend of mine achieves the same effect by putting his arms behind his head, tucked under his pillow. He finds it very uncomfortable to sleep like this, so eventually he gets tired enough to slip into hypnagogia, but he never quite falls asleep.

It doesn't work for me, I find that position very comfortable.

But basically, you can be creative in this regard. Anything that helps you hover back and forth between waking and sleeping mind helps you chase down the elusive middle bit.

Another friend swears by taking a double espresso and laying down in the afternoon. Apparently this is enough to keep her from going deeper into sleep than desired. I haven't had much success with this particular method either.

Re: MIT Researchers Have Developed a ‘System for Dream Control’

#128

Post by drewbuschhorn »

testplzignore wrote: post #48
veli_joza wrote: post #2

I was introduced to this phenomenon through Kurzweil's book "How to create a mind". He claims that the brain is massively parallelized pattern recognition machine, with consciousness being a censor that filters results. While in hypnagogia, this censoring function is suppressed and you are able to make "unthinkable" connections between ideas you normally think are unrelated. Of course, you should just take notes of t…

Until now I never knew that there was a name for "hypnagogia". For most of my life, I was never able to remember this period of sleep, but over the last few years that has changed (not intentionally, so I don't know what changed in my body to cause the difference). I've developed some level of awareness during it and can wake myself up from it, then remember at least some of it. If you've never experienced it, it's l…

I had something like what you're describing as I was developing mild sleep apnea. Starting using those nasal separator strips religiously and got back to having consistently deep "dreamless" sleep ... but no lucid dreams.

Re: MIT Researchers Have Developed a ‘System for Dream Control’

#129

Post by lumberingjack »

testplzignore wrote: post #48
veli_joza wrote: post #2

I was introduced to this phenomenon through Kurzweil's book "How to create a mind". He claims that the brain is massively parallelized pattern recognition machine, with consciousness being a censor that filters results. While in hypnagogia, this censoring function is suppressed and you are able to make "unthinkable" connections between ideas you normally think are unrelated. Of course, you should just take notes of t…

Until now I never knew that there was a name for "hypnagogia". For most of my life, I was never able to remember this period of sleep, but over the last few years that has changed (not intentionally, so I don't know what changed in my body to cause the difference). I've developed some level of awareness during it and can wake myself up from it, then remember at least some of it. If you've never experienced it, it's l…

>"I don't know what changed in my body to cause the difference"

For me it was gaining a better understanding of basic physics. Something I was never taught at an early age due to a cult like upbringing. Now questioning all I have ever been taught is second nature in my waking life. Even basic things like was that shadow normal? "Oh right, nothing divine there." So now that has leaked into my dream state, whenever physics goes weird (mostly water not flowing right or objects that don't respond in a proper manner) I instantly question it and then become aware of my dream state.

Re: MIT Researchers Have Developed a ‘System for Dream Control’

#130

Post by MrsPeaches »

sangnoir wrote: post #99
jl2718 wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That moment when your brain falls asleep in class and tells you it unveiled the deep connection between carnival blister peanut texture and the quantum variational bound. And then you wake up suddenly and get scared because you think you might have yelled out something stupid. Or maybe I’m just the only one.

> Or maybe I’m just the only one not just you - I didn't have a name for it, but my brain pretty much does free-association in that phase. On more than one occasion I've jolted awake because I've had a earth-shattering revelation, only to realise my idea was already invented (hot air balloon) or pretty ridiculous (like having your toaster burn the day's agenda on your toast). I can't help but wonder: how many multi-m…

> pretty ridiculous (like having your toaster burn the day's agenda on your toast).

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/258723592/toasteroid-fi...

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