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China Is Building a Rain-Making System Three Times as Big as Spain

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121–130 of 155 posts

Re: China Is Building a Rain-Making System Three Times as Big as Spain

#121
post #90

Under the guidelines of the Clean Water Act by the EPA, silver iodide is considered a hazardous substance, a priority pollutant, and as a toxic pollutant.(10) Some industries have learned this all too well. ... If the toxicity manifests in pollution and illnesses, the effects may not be reversible ... http://www.ranches.org/cloudseedingharmful.htm So.... this doesn't seem like the best idea.

Interesting. Cloud seeding using Silver Iodide is still in use in Canada, as part of the Alberta Hail Suppression Project[0]. These little differences between Canada and the US always surprise me.

[0] https://globalnews.ca/news/3514775/alberta-severe-weather-su...

Re: China Is Building a Rain-Making System Three Times as Big as Spain

#122
post #60

This is total conspiracy theory stuff and I'll probably get downvoted into oblivion but has anyone else in London found it really strange on how on the day of the Brexit referendum - we had these sudden overnight thunderstorms which resulted in many roads being flooded, polling stations being inaccessible and huge delays / suspensions of the Tube? Just a coincidence and bad luck? * http://uk.businessinsider.com/polls…

Did the sun rise the following morning too?

Re: China Is Building a Rain-Making System Three Times as Big as Spain

#123
post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

compared to the rest of the world?

Yeah I'd 's/China/Humans/'. I'm referring to the fact that (mostly) everyone emits CO2 with cars, without caring about longer term impacts on global climate, sea rise, increase of hurricane frequency and intensity, etc.

> (mostly) everyone emits CO2 with cars, without caring about longer term impacts on global climate, sea rise, increase of hurricane frequency and intensity, etc.

I don't think that's accurate. Most? countries regulate CO2. European countries do, for example.

Re: China Is Building a Rain-Making System Three Times as Big as Spain

#124
post #90

Under the guidelines of the Clean Water Act by the EPA, silver iodide is considered a hazardous substance, a priority pollutant, and as a toxic pollutant.(10) Some industries have learned this all too well. ... If the toxicity manifests in pollution and illnesses, the effects may not be reversible ... http://www.ranches.org/cloudseedingharmful.htm So.... this doesn't seem like the best idea.

Regardless of the merits or demerits of this particular scheme, I admire the spirit. With a fraction of such confidence we could revive the Neanderthals, build an asteroid defence system, clean up the oceans, on and on. Instead we're not trying much. We feel ashamed... because... why?

Re: China Is Building a Rain-Making System Three Times as Big as Spain

#126
post #90

Under the guidelines of the Clean Water Act by the EPA, silver iodide is considered a hazardous substance, a priority pollutant, and as a toxic pollutant.(10) Some industries have learned this all too well. ... If the toxicity manifests in pollution and illnesses, the effects may not be reversible ... http://www.ranches.org/cloudseedingharmful.htm So.... this doesn't seem like the best idea.

Regardless of the merits or demerits of this particular scheme, I admire the spirit. With a fraction of such confidence we could revive the Neanderthals, build an asteroid defence system, clean up the oceans, on and on. Instead we're not trying much. We feel ashamed... because... why?

At what cost? Some cultures do not value the health and life of the every day person. I don't think that is something to be honored or respected.

Re: China Is Building a Rain-Making System Three Times as Big as Spain

#127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah I'd 's/China/Humans/'. I'm referring to the fact that (mostly) everyone emits CO2 with cars, without caring about longer term impacts on global climate, sea rise, increase of hurricane frequency and intensity, etc.

> (mostly) everyone emits CO2 with cars, without caring about longer term impacts on global climate, sea rise, increase of hurricane frequency and intensity, etc. I don't think that's accurate. Most? countries regulate CO2. European countries do, for example.

According to this graph, car seems to be dominant in europe too. [2014] Of course Europe is doing better and I'd like to see more trains in Canada and the US.

http://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/statistics-explained/index.php/...

Re: China Is Building a Rain-Making System Three Times as Big as Spain

#128
post #90

Under the guidelines of the Clean Water Act by the EPA, silver iodide is considered a hazardous substance, a priority pollutant, and as a toxic pollutant.(10) Some industries have learned this all too well. ... If the toxicity manifests in pollution and illnesses, the effects may not be reversible ... http://www.ranches.org/cloudseedingharmful.htm So.... this doesn't seem like the best idea.

China seems to be somewhere that is happy with short term solutions without considering longer term impacts.

I think it's a developmental stage. Do it and then stop it. See those (ex-)factories near major US cities?

China has stopped of pollution already, after ruining the manufacturing base in richer countries.

Re: China Is Building a Rain-Making System Three Times as Big as Spain

#129
post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

provided no other variables... considering it's 71% of the area of the planet, I'd say it's 71% likely to rain on the ocean

That sounds kind of shortsighted reasoning. I know that in Scotland most of the weather comes from the West, hits the mountains and falls as rain. Its dryer on the east coast (though it still rains plenty).

In the US, prevailing weather moves from west to east.

Moist air from the Pacific is immediately pushed up by the Rockies and rains out. Almost the entire US West is in the rain shadow, and very dry. Weather patterns pushing north from the Gulf of Mexico and passing over the Great Lakes restore normal rainfall roughly between the Mississippi River and the Appalachians. Since those are very old and weathered mountains, there is a very slight rain shadow to their east, and proximity to the coast evens it out shortly thereafter. Most of the deserts in the US Southwest only get rain from the monsoon thunderstorms from Gulf of California and Gulf of Mexico, because otherwise they're "behind" the mountains all the time.

Obviously, the oceans themselves don't have mountains that cast rain shadows. But they have warm and cold currents. Cold currents have a sort of shadow, because they evaporate less moisture into passing air masses. The warm/cold current split is why San Diego is dry while San Francisco is wet.

Scotland's winds blow over the Norwegian branch of the North Atlantic warm current, rain out over the highlands, and rain out a tiny bit less on the lowlands. The patterns are entirely predictable from orography and oceanic currents. All of Britain is warmer and wetter from the current, and Scotland is where all the mountains are.

Both effects come together at the Atacama Desert, because it's in the orographic rain shadow from the Andes and has a dry coast from a cold ocean current.

Even if the entire planet was covered in ocean, there would still be uneven rainfall patterns, as the circulation currents would be influenced by underwater ridges and seamounts, wind patterns, and seasons.

Re: China Is Building a Rain-Making System Three Times as Big as Spain

#130
post #85
post #12

Excluding systems which put water into the air, Atmospheric water is a zero sum game AFAIK so if this causes rain to fall where the Chinese want it, somebody else misses out. Freshwater from high mountains in the India/China region is a hot topic. They're running out of glaciers.

Came here to ask if this was a zero sum game (verbatim, actually). So, thanks for this. Given how much human conflict has erupted over access to rivers and other water sources, I can't imagine it will go well if a lot of countries start to do this at scale... It's also fascinating how we muck-up water management in seemingly contradictory ways. I live in a temperate climate with a good amount of rainfall, but my town…

I'm glad I'm not the only one who thought of this immediately after reading the article.

You mentioned another point that's worth investigating with this technology - some places see excessive rainfall to the point where it disrupts populated areas.

Perhaps in the long-term we can learn if there are specific areas these systems tend to draw from and determine how weather patterns contribute to that. Eventually, we may be able to use these systems in a way that takes just the right amount of excessive rainfall from areas where it's becoming a nuisance and evenly distributing them to areas where water is scarce.

One could hope that countries experimenting with this across the globe would be willing to find ways to make that happen, although that could create huge dependency chains that quickly fall apart as soon as one country backs out suddenly.

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