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The IRS collects data on Coinbase account holders

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Re: The IRS collects data on Coinbase account holders

#121
post #27

One of the tax implications I’ve often thought about is those that heavily trade among different cryptos. If I buy $10k of Intel, it grows to $15k and I sell it to buy $15k of Google, I owe tax on the $5k gain. Now, perhaps one could argue that there is no “liquidity” event by trading one crypto for another. But perhaps the IRS argues there is a phantom liquidity event during such a trade. The IRS generally doesn’t l…

The problem is, USD is the only legal tender. When I sell Intel stock, that where I made profit in USD. I pay tax on that. But if I trade BTC for DOGE, I haven't made any money. All I have done is swap tokens. And just because someone would pay X dollars for tokens, doesn't mean I made any money. I mean where does it end? If I tell you I'll pay you 10000 dollars for the pocket lint in your pocket, did you just make a…

Profit or gain may be measured in USD, but a transaction does not need to include USD to generate a taxable gain.

The IRS has all sorts of rules involving barters, meaning trading one asset for another without USD being involved in the transaction at all. [1]

Say you buy a car for $10k, let it sit in your garage for 30 years and it now becomes a classic vintage worth $30k. If you go and trade that car for a new motorcycle worth $30k, the IRS requires you to record your $20k gain on the car when you make the trade for the motorcycle.

Where does it end? When you’ve paid the IRS the tax you owe, as per the law.

Regarding the pocket lint, if you tell me you’ll pay $10k for mine, I have no gain. When the sale happens, I recognize the $10k gain and pay the tax. This seems to be a pretty typical transaction for pocket lint or a truckload of butter.

1. https://www.irs.gov/taxtopics/tc420

Re: The IRS collects data on Coinbase account holders

#122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Think about it this way: you place a trade on December 28th or so that is valued at a few million, then make a series of disastrous trades that bring your account down to 10k in February. You owe taxes to the feds and state of about 500,000, which you don't have anymore. That is of course carried forward as a loss for the next year, but that only results in reducing taxable income at a potentially lower bracket.

I'm almost certain there was a guy on r/CryptoMarkets (or one of those crypto currency subs) who this happened to. He apparently traded a few bitcoin up to a few hundred in 2017. Then closed out his positions near the end of the year. Reinvested everything after the new year and lost almost all of it. If that's all true he could be on the hook for a lot of money.

No different than if you had done it with stocks instead.

Re: The IRS collects data on Coinbase account holders

#123
post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It isn’t 100% clear because there hasn’t been an explicit ruling from the IRS but it’s very unlikely that crypto to crypto would be considered a 1031 like-kind trade. They didn’t even allow trades between precious metals or gold coins with different grades of gold to qualify. I think the bigger issue for US taxpayers is that the IRS doesn’t allow individuals to carryback losses. From what I’ve read, corporations in t…

As of 2018 it's now statute that it's not a like-kind trade, for 2017 it's still uncertain.

Yes, I should have stated that more clearly. I’d also clarify that for 2009-2017 it’s still uncertain.

I still wouldn’t hold my breath.

Re: The IRS collects data on Coinbase account holders

#125
post #56

Could the IRS do me a solid and send me what the capital gains on my crypto currency are? I'll pay the taxes--I just don't want to have to calculate the taxes. I know, I know. Intuit and H&R Block refuse to allow that to happen, but if we could stop prioritizing entrenched industries, that'd be really nice.

The IRS won't, but tools like https://www.cointracker.io can

Are you affiliated with cointracker? I only ask because you've linked to it three times in the comments here, and if you are you should disclose that fact. If you just love the service, no worries!

Re: The IRS collects data on Coinbase account holders

#126
post #83
post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not just Intuit and H&R Block. A lot of us small business owners don't want the IRS knowing every detail of our businesses in order to just magically send us a pre-filled return each year. The current tax system places responsibility on you, the investor, to tabulate all of your gains and losses, but it also gives you the freedom to invest in complex and unusual transactions like coins in the first place. Don't…

That sounds like you're arguing that you want the ability to continue avoiding taxes by not letting the IRS know the whole truth. That's fine, but if I have to pick one entity to extract money from me id rather it go to the government which at least has a tiny chance of benefiting me rather than going to a private company who has no reason to do anything to benefit me

Odd. The majority of the things I consider crucial to keeping my current standard of living comes from private entities.

That said, pretending the IRS doesn't already know what taxes to collect from you is definitely naive.

Re: The IRS collects data on Coinbase account holders

#127
post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The IRS won't, but tools like https://www.cointracker.io can

Are you affiliated with cointracker? I only ask because you've linked to it three times in the comments here, and if you are you should disclose that fact. If you just love the service, no worries!

Given that they submitted their Launch HN, seems like they are a cofounder of it.

Re: The IRS collects data on Coinbase account holders

#128

"Chain-splits. These occur when a cryptocurrency branches into two or more versions, as bitcoin and Bitcoin Cash did last year. Investors are often entitled to new coins as a result. Does this right generate taxable income?" Huh.

This is probably the biggest open question, with no good answer.

For Bitcoin Cash, if you declare that, what value do you use? Futures price before the fork? Price immediately after? Which exchange? And the price fluctuated wildly, so they all seem arbitrary.

The alternative is to claim a cost-basis of $0 when you actually realize those gains, which makes a hell of a lot more sense to me, but the IRS might disagree. Who knows?

And what about Bitcoin Gold or the dozens of super-shady forks? Technically they have value, but it's value I don't think I'll realize because they're so shady. You have to go through the trouble of clearing your wallet of 'real' Bitcoin, and then import it to whatever 'totally not going to hack you' wallet software you need to use to claim it. Even if you don't lose your 'real' Bitcoin, all the other shady forks could be stolen. It's clearly not 'real' in the way that traditional securities are.

Re: The IRS collects data on Coinbase account holders

#129
post #56

Could the IRS do me a solid and send me what the capital gains on my crypto currency are? I'll pay the taxes--I just don't want to have to calculate the taxes. I know, I know. Intuit and H&R Block refuse to allow that to happen, but if we could stop prioritizing entrenched industries, that'd be really nice.

If IRS all over the world would act as a tax assistant instead of pure penalty seeker I'm sure everybody would love it. Wasted energy IMO.

Re: The IRS collects data on Coinbase account holders

#130
post #56

Could the IRS do me a solid and send me what the capital gains on my crypto currency are? I'll pay the taxes--I just don't want to have to calculate the taxes. I know, I know. Intuit and H&R Block refuse to allow that to happen, but if we could stop prioritizing entrenched industries, that'd be really nice.

"How much do I owe?"

"How much do you THINK you owe?"

"...Hmm, if I have everything correct, I think I owe this much"

"WRONG! Time for consequences!"

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