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What Airbnb Did to New York City

citylab.com

121–130 of 240 posts

Re: What Airbnb Did to New York City

#121
post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> virtually no residents Seeing as how there are 1.6 million of those now that would be quite a turn of events.

I didn't say it would happen overnight. That real estate is apparently more valuable as hotels and vacant investment properties than it is as housing stock. New York should embrace and exploit the fact that billionaires will pay high property taxes on empty condos, not try to fight it.

In 2011 there were 34000 homes in Manhattan that were absentee owned or rented. That's a lot, but not in comparison with the size of the city.

Also, the population in Manhattan has been going up since 1980, so it can simultaneously be true that there are more people living here and more vacant investment properties and hotel rooms.

I doubt we're in any danger of Manhattan emptying out in the next few hundred years from anything other than a nuclear attack or climate change.

Re: What Airbnb Did to New York City

#122
post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Personal experience and this has nothing to do with New York City but I can understand the article POV. I recently moved to an island in Greece. The small town am living in, has the exact same issue that the article is describing, yet even worse. Everyone, literally EVERYONE, has their apartments/houses/properties that they don't live in, turned into Airbnb's. Doesn't matter if its in the town center or 30 miles out…

>So yes all in all, airbnb and similar sites, create a massive issue and I feel like something should be done about it. It seems like the issue is a massive housing shortage and the solution is to build more housing.

That's part of it, but there is also a genuine issue of AirBnB owners running unlicensed hotels that impose negative externalities on the community (e.g. not being checked for bedbugs as frequently as a hotel should, providing a place that wanted criminals can hide out without having their IDs checked, evading taxes...)

Re: What Airbnb Did to New York City

#123
post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

40% of buildings in manhattan couldn't be built today. Seems like the standards could be lowered. https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2016/05/19/upshot/forty-...

This is always such a stupid argument. Zoning and regulations are not about what is there, its about what you WANT to be there. If you had supply issue in an area full of flats, and you said "all buildings from now on have to be at least 2 stories high", 100% of buildings could not be built today. But you're trying to make things better. (I realize that's not the point of the article you linked, and that it's usually…

> This is always such a stupid argument. Zoning and regulations are not about what is there, its about what you WANT to be there. If you had supply issue in an area full of flats, and you said "all buildings from now on have to be at least 2 stories high", 100% of buildings could not be built today. But you're trying to make things better.

If what you have now is worse than you think it should be then the argument isn't valid, agreed. But if you think the way the place is now is pretty good - if the things that are now illegal are the same things that set this place apart from other cities - then the argument makes sense.

Re: What Airbnb Did to New York City

#124
post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Really? Because rent control certainly myself and everyone I knew in a similar situation with a chance at class mobility. Rent control allowed my mom to stop being a cab driver and go to nursing school. Rent control facilitated me getting a really great education and career. I grew up needing food stamps, handmedown clothes and even shoes. How can you, with a straight face, tell me that bullshit?

Because you benefited at the cost of others. For everyone that has your success story, rent control causes a number of others to have even less access to affordable housing.

And that’s JUST because of rent control

Not wage stagnation or cost of living increases, or AirBNB (oh wait)

Just rent control

So let’s screw the people relying on it because in some narrow context about screwing others (that never happens otherwise in the economy!) rent control is bad

There are hacks and patches all over “the system”. That’s called free market making agreements as needed when needed, IMO

Just because when quantified some story is told that seems off to external players doesn’t mean it’s anyone’s concern but the parties directly involced

Re: What Airbnb Did to New York City

#125
post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hotel Tonight app has 10+ hotels for under $160/night (for tonight) - that's with just a casual scroll...

And add about 25% in taxes to that. Plus I can assure you that barring unusual circumstances cheap hotels (and $200 isn't exactly "cheap" in my book) in Manhattan are probably best avoided. Mind you, in my experience as a business traveler, hotel prices in San Francisco are often higher than Manhattan in any case.

I just stayed in a Fairfield Inn & Suites on 58th last month for 4 nights (including Friday / Saturday) at $590 total ($147.50 per night). It wasn't luxury by any means, but it was perfectly nice. Also, the taxes were $90 of that, so 15%, not 25%.

Re: What Airbnb Did to New York City

#126
post #54

AirBNB and Uber are the least racist companies on the face of the earth. No other companies on earth have opened up the avenues for direct social interactions across race and class lines the way these two companies have. Before Uber and AirBNB, how many opportuinities could you name for white Americans to do the following: 1. Get in a car with a black person for an hour and have a conversation about the election 2. G…

All 4 happened with regularity before uber. Are you literally 12? And how did mentioning that minorities were disproportionately affected become calling either company racist? The only racisim i see is buried in the assumptions made in your comment.

[deleted]

Re: What Airbnb Did to New York City

#127
post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That seems a good thing economically. Imagine there's a place on Earth that is somehow truly amazing and fills you with happiness for a long time for just visiting it. Obviously, it makes sense to have as many different people as possible be able to appreciate it, which requires having them visit only one or a few nights. Clearly, people should not be able to monopolize a flat there for 365 days a year, and if they d…

cities aren't tourist destinations, people live and work there. skyrocketing rent just so tourists can frolic is a disservice to the people who live there day-to-day

> cities aren't tourist destinations, people live and work there.

Cities are both in various ratios. Those cities that tourists particularly value should probably allocate a large proportion of their limited housing to tourists, those cities that people particularly value living and working in should probably allocate a large proportion of their houses to homes. Fortunately the market can sort this out.

Re: What Airbnb Did to New York City

#128
tl;dr: The underlying product - properties - were actually more useful than was widely recognized. Given new demand, expecting anything other than price increases is unreasonable… but so is treating current prices like they're written in stone.

Here's one way to think about Airbnb: prior to Airbnb (and VRBO and…), housing values - both rents and asset prices - didn't incorporate all of the legal and zone-permissible demand for them.

Imagine if, until now, the only way to rent an apartment was by pre-paying for a year. Instead of $1,500/month or $2,000/month, every landlord quoted and charged a price per year, like $18,000/year.

A company or business model then introduces the idea of only charging by the month (ie, what the US market is now based on) rather than requiring pre-paying for a year. 2 things would happen:

1. Demand would increase (and prices would probably go up), because someone would be serving previously un-met demand. (From the article: "over the last three years, Airbnb has increased long-term rents in the city by 1.4 percent")

2. The customer base would change, since the demographics of those able to come up with 1 month's rent are very different from those who can front 1 year's rent. Some of these newcomers would be non-residents or short-term residents.

If this sounds a lot like what Airbnb has done, you see the challenge. There's nothing inherently permanent about current rents or asset prices, nor the current customer base. They're just reflections of the ways that a property can be used at one point in time – and there's nothing special about those ways. People got used to the current demand because the product mix changed so little for so long.

Whether that's good, bad, or some of both is a reasonable question, but in any other industry (even with other supply-constrained assets), society almost always considers it good. The underlying product was actually more useful than was widely recognized.

(If the yearly vs. monthly rent example sounds outlandish, here's another that's actually happened: 10%-15% mortgage interest rates, as existed for most of the early 1980s. 13% mortgages could change the supply of housing enough to meaningfully impact asset prices and rents, that is, create a new normal price.)

I agree with the article's sub-point that this has little or nothing to do with home sharing. The core change is that it's now possible to use an existing product to serve a market that was previously not served well.

(Note that I'm ignoring housing where short-term rentals were not legal prior to Airbnb - say, before 2013 - or were legal but not permissible under zoning. While those are important considerations, many or most short-term rental limits were passed in response to Airbnb.)

Re: What Airbnb Did to New York City

#129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Bah, UK is so small it’s easy to see how it can be a problem. America has so much land available out there, some of it is incredibly cheap the farther you are from civilization, even almost free. I think I could buy several rolling acres of land for a couple thousand bucks right now.

I can really only speak with experience with regards to Scotland here. The problem isn't that we don't have enough land to build on. The problem is that there are vast tracts of land owned by a few large estates (many of them owned by off-shored companies in the usual Caribbean tax havens) that will never normally be available for sale. The land is wasted and misused for the benefit of a few very rich folks who want…

you forgot to mention the main cause - the UK's absurd and highly restrictive planning regime.

Re: What Airbnb Did to New York City

#130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I want to point out that expensive rent in a rural area is different than expensive rent in an urban one. In a rural area, if it really comes down to it, people buy or rent a plot of land and throw a prefab home or trailer on it. In an urban area, you don't have a lot of options when rent goes up other than moving to a dangerous neighborhood or commuting from an inhumane distance.

Nooo. Trailers are the country ghetto. Unlike houses they are depreciating assets. So if you are fortunate enough to own your land and dwelling, unlike a home the value curve trends towards zero. The land value is the only asset, and doesn’t build much wealth. Expensive rent in a rural area means people get pushed further away. In the medical practice that my mom worked at, employees commuted as far as 100 miles.

> Trailers are the country ghetto.

I'd rather live in a proper house. But it's pretty common for working class rural Americans to live in mobile or prefab homes on nice properties with gardens, fruit trees, hiking trails, sheds for four wheelers, etc.

Trailer parks, which are dense neighborhoods of mobile homes or tailers, tend to be less nice and inhabited by people in poverty. Though they often have other options, like absolute run-down shacks way outside town.

Point being, there's some distinction in practice and I won't begrudge people living within their means.

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