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KaiOS – A Smartphone Operating System

kaiostech.com

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Re: KaiOS – A Smartphone Operating System

#121

Post by krylon »

z3phyr wrote: post #96
bachmeier wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't really agree with the claim. What allowed the Linux desktop to take off was extreme security problems in Windows and generally a terrible user experience. Anyone adopting Linux had to put up with constant hardware incompatibility issues. It's just that Windows was so bad that it was worth it. (I made the switch sometime around 2003, and have been Linux-only for more than a decade.) In contrast, there is no ob…

This is not completely true. I was pretty happy with Windows as my Desktop OS, despite the occasional horrors. All my games worked, Visual C worked and most of the random utilities worked. I partially switched to Linux just as an adventure, because I could.

Hehe, my experience was kind of similar. I was not really unhappy with Windows (98), I had just grown curious about Linux due to all the media hype it got at the time (2000-ish).

After I got past the initial "This is really weird"-phase, Linux was an eye opener. Other than that I use Windows at work, I have not looked back since.

Strictly speaking it is not about GNU/Linux per se, but Windows vs. Unix. One of the BSDs could fill that place just as well, but on Linux, hardware support is usually better, plus the mainstream Linux distros tend to be more friendly to lazy or non-techie users.

Re: KaiOS – A Smartphone Operating System

#122

Post by krylon »

nasredin wrote: post #70
bachmeier wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't really agree with the claim. What allowed the Linux desktop to take off was extreme security problems in Windows and generally a terrible user experience. Anyone adopting Linux had to put up with constant hardware incompatibility issues. It's just that Windows was so bad that it was worth it. (I made the switch sometime around 2003, and have been Linux-only for more than a decade.) In contrast, there is no ob…

In addition to security. Linux and BSDs were not as polished usability-wise as Windows NTs before early 2000s. Just my humble opinion.

When I first started using Linux (2000), the desktop was still rather clunky. Both KDE and Gnome were so immature I eventually settled on Windowmaker for a few years.

OTOH, the Linux- / free Unix-desktop has come a long way since then. For my personal machines, I think GNU/Linux plus MATE makes for a much better desktop than Windows these days. (Admittedly, my taste might be slightly non-mainstream.)

Re: KaiOS – A Smartphone Operating System

#123

Post by paulie_a »

fabrice_d wrote: post #99
culot wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apparently KaiOS is a fork of Firefox OS/B2G. So... where's the code, yo? I've scoured Github, but no sign of it. edit: nevermind: "KaiOS is based on the Firefox OS open-source project and we are committed to abide by the rules of the applicable open source licenses. Therefore, we’ll make the source code available to the extent required by the applicable open source licenses." So that's a no on giving back to the B2G…

It's not a "no on giving back". You only have to make available the source for products you ship, and KaiOS itself is not the one shipping the devices, so it's up to the OEMs to provide the source they use on their phones (they do their own customizations). That being said, I'm trying to get us to open source the "base" version which is provided to OEMs.

Can you prevent the OEMs from customizing? That is my biggest complaint in regards to Android. Garbage software added on top of good hardware.

Re: KaiOS – A Smartphone Operating System

#124

Post by 1011_1101 »

smt88 wrote: post #111
jacquesm wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I really want PostMarketOS to succeed, for one because it would be really neat to have an open phone OS but also because I think it would cut down a lot on the number of phones that end up being demolished long before their actual life-span is at an end.

I have a 1st-gen Moto X that I use as a backup. It's about as responsive as my Pixel (i.e. not very responsive, not even close to iPhone) and it's a great size. The problem is, as always, the battery. If I could replace that and install PostMarket, I might use it as my daily driver.

Couldn't find any numbers for battery life comparison between original and postmarketOS. Could you share your experience please? (Your last line seems to indicate there might be a significant increase)

Re: KaiOS – A Smartphone Operating System

#126

Post by JD557 »

From the website, it appears that all apps are written in HTML5+CSS+JS, however they target feature phones with 256MB of RAM and claim to have a long battery life.

Considering how much resources some electron apps need and how battery hungry they are, what's the "secret" here? Is it a subset of HTML? Is Firefox that much more efficient than Chromium?

Re: KaiOS – A Smartphone Operating System

#127

Post by amelius »

djsumdog wrote: post #11

I'd really like to see a truly open alternative on the mobile space. The biggest issue is the hardware. It's just not standardized and there's no incentive to do so. It's really preventing the way Linux took off on developers desktops back in the late 90s/early 2000s. FirefoxOS and Ubuntu Touch looked promising, but they lacked good hardware to run on. I'd really like to try Plasma, but I don't like any of the device…

One problem is compatibility. My banking app only supports Android and iOS. Not sure how that is going to be handled in a new system.

Re: KaiOS – A Smartphone Operating System

#128

Post by toyg »

fabrice_d wrote: post #99
culot wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apparently KaiOS is a fork of Firefox OS/B2G. So... where's the code, yo? I've scoured Github, but no sign of it. edit: nevermind: "KaiOS is based on the Firefox OS open-source project and we are committed to abide by the rules of the applicable open source licenses. Therefore, we’ll make the source code available to the extent required by the applicable open source licenses." So that's a no on giving back to the B2G…

It's not a "no on giving back". You only have to make available the source for products you ship, and KaiOS itself is not the one shipping the devices, so it's up to the OEMs to provide the source they use on their phones (they do their own customizations). That being said, I'm trying to get us to open source the "base" version which is provided to OEMs.

> You only have to make available the source for products you ship

That's a bit disingenous. Android wasn't shipping anything and it always released sources, as far as I know. Same for almost any Linux distribution out there. Common courtesy calls for distributing at least "release" versions, like RedHat and even Apple do.

That, to me, sounds like you're currently taking the minimalist "we'll release the bare minimum we are legally forced to, and nothing else" stance, which is basically equivalent to "we are not going to give back anything if we can avoid it".

I do hope this will change in the future, although given the realities of embedded development (cut-throat and all), I wouldn't be surprised if it never did. I think I'll keep rooting for more open players in the space.

Re: KaiOS – A Smartphone Operating System

#129

Post by devit »

greenhouse_gas wrote: post #107
devit wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What they lacked is support for Android apps, since obviously expecting everyone to rewrite all apps for a new platform is a non-starter. If Mozilla had simply acquired LineageOS, worked on MicroG to reach feature parity with Play Services, added Firefox for Android and their own app store in addition to Google Play via MicroG, and resold flagship Android phones with that as well as offering it to OEMs, they would ha…

1. Companies distributing Google Play Services has to sign an agreement not to ship (or even build) a non-Google Android-derived phone. So, while Samsung may ship Tizen and Windows Phone, they may not build phones for Amazon (which caused Amazon a lot of problems back in the day - where will you find a company making portable electronics that will make them a white-label product and not making android phones). 2. Mic…

Smartphones are commoditized and there are non-Google Android smartphones on the market, so they should be able to get some made. Also, they can just buy any unlocked phone at retail, replace the OS, rebrand and resell (obviously this limits the market due to high price, but also requires no upfront investment).

As for Play Services, they could just have a team whose job is to make MicroG work exactly like Play Services so that all apps work including the Google apps.

The only Google app that you need to replicate is the Play Store client (or really, the downloader, since you can just use the Play Store website for the UI) and then the user can install all the Google apps from the Play Store.

As for getting developers to put apps in their store, it's certainly much easier than getting them to write another app.

Re: KaiOS – A Smartphone Operating System

#130

Post by toyg »

debatem1 wrote: post #92
djsumdog wrote: post #11

I'd really like to see a truly open alternative on the mobile space. The biggest issue is the hardware. It's just not standardized and there's no incentive to do so. It's really preventing the way Linux took off on developers desktops back in the late 90s/early 2000s. FirefoxOS and Ubuntu Touch looked promising, but they lacked good hardware to run on. I'd really like to try Plasma, but I don't like any of the device…

IIRC Android is the most common operating system on Earth, while Linux desktops are still around 5% market share. Seems like desktop Linux needs to do as Android does to take off, not the other way around?

Android arrived when the smartphone marked was in its infancy, whereas Linux emerged much later in the development cycle of the PC market, when it was way too late.

If IBM could have chosen a free and open DOS for its first PCs, the market would look very different today.

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