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Words for “yes” in Romance languages

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Re: Words for “yes” in Romance languages

#121

Post by posterboy »

schoen wrote: post #48
posterboy wrote: post #45

I wonder, is occitan not related to occident and orient? and oil, well, that's norse for beer, remember where normandy has it's name from? That doesn't explain yes, no; but eu, as in euphemism might[1]. Heureka! In other news, what does si in greek letters look like? "σι"! Pretty close to oi nowadays and Celtic druids are speculated to have visited Greece. That doesn't invalidate the "this there" story, but maybe pre…

> I wonder, is occitan not related to occident and orient? Nope! The orient is where the sun rises and the occident is where the sun sets. All of these have been traced back to Proto-Indo-European and have different origins: https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/orior#Latin https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/occido#Etymology_1 https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/ob#Latin https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/hic#Latin Edit: the eu- also ha…

Yeah, I can google myself thank you very much.

Your inability to speak or to read properly makes me really doubt your general premises, because neither had anyone talked about ob and you didn't explain the relation to the thread either, nor did you notice my precaution to note that I the theory for oil from the article might still be valid. Instead you seem to have come panting and frothing from the mouth as soon as you had read the first few lines hardly being able to read the rest of my post. I know how it is, I do that too sometimes. No harm done.

> the eu- also has a different PIE etymology.

I know, why do you think I would have mentioned it otherwise?! If you had to guess in percent how certain a single PIE root is, and then take the combined probability for ll f the roots of the rather young PIE studies, which are very well known to have produced a metric shittonne of false results not even a hundred years ago that we are still wading through, how likely is it that the patient has cancer?

To repeat, what's "ob" have to do with this?

Re: Words for “yes” in Romance languages

#122

Post by posterboy »

igravious wrote: post #78
posterboy wrote: post #45

I wonder, is occitan not related to occident and orient? and oil, well, that's norse for beer, remember where normandy has it's name from? That doesn't explain yes, no; but eu, as in euphemism might[1]. Heureka! In other news, what does si in greek letters look like? "σι"! Pretty close to oi nowadays and Celtic druids are speculated to have visited Greece. That doesn't invalidate the "this there" story, but maybe pre…

No need to wonder. The Occitan Wiktionary page https://oc.wiktionary.org/wiki/occitan says “Del latin medieval occitanus, que se tròba dins lingua occitana. Derivat de òc, benlèu sus lo modèl de aquitanus.” – the English Wiktionary page of same says “From Medieval Latin occitanus in the phrase lingua occitana, Latinization of langue d'oc. The ending -itanus perhaps after aquitanus.” And Occident https://www.etymonlin…

>Even though I didn't particularly take to the sprinkling of profanity and hip-hop lingo I think "on some Slavic shit" roughly translates to "on some Slavic thing/trip" and isn't intended to be derogatory. Am open to corrections here.

Yeah, in the drive-by shootin kinda sense maybe, motherfucker.

> The rest of your post I'm having a hard time disassembling. I don't think you can just free associate from one language to another switching between written and spoken changing alphabets along the way and between past and present.

Of course you can freely associate, to a limited degree you even have to, because that's how language is being used. I'm pretty sure because, like, it still is, which I know, because sometimes I do go out. And I'd hazard a guess that before TV and public schooling, language was far more fractured and

> I mean, if you actually did come up with a valid and novel derivation of something that's the kind of thing one could put into a paper get peer reviewed and published.

I take that as a compliment. I could self publish like Martin Luther and start a new religion. I'd call it Euangelium ... So much for you can't just freely associate between written and spoken language.

Re: Words for “yes” in Romance languages

#123

Post by __s »

taneliv wrote: post #66
acobster wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This. ;) I think what tickles me about it is that they clearly know what they're talking about, but they're also actively setting themselves apart from the Ivory Tower and signaling that their interest is one that brings them some earnest fucking joy.

It is probably only appreciable because it contrasts starkly with the expectations. But if people were to regularly write academic treatises peppered with obscenities, I think it would get rather old rather fast. Which is not to say that one could not use more, ummm... vernacular language. But in quite moderation, I would say.

Here's a bit of a metatake on this: https://open.library.ubc.ca/cIRcle/collections/ubctheses/24/... where it's reflecting on indigenous culture while preferring to write in a prose styled after that culture

Re: Words for “yes” in Romance languages

#124

Post by School-Cotton »

benzor wrote: post #26
acobster wrote: post #23

Great article. On a side note, I took five years of French and never learned that si is specifically for contradicting a negative. Sup with that.

As a native French speaker from Quebec, I can tell you it's much more common in France, so if you went to school in North America that might explain it.

In the US, french from France is taught. The Quebec dialect is barely mentioned.

Btw, in France, “si” in that context is not just common, but absolutely required. People would be confused if someone used “oui”.

Re: Words for “yes” in Romance languages

#125

Post by arwhatever »

nasredin wrote: post #96
kleiba wrote: post #87

I personally find the use of single word "This." in reply to a comment on forums (such as e.g. HN) really annoying. (But then again, I've reached an age where you tend to find everything new awful.) I guess the reason why it pisses me off is that it doesn't do anything that "Yes.", "Exactly.", "I agree" couldn't already do, but at the same time it has this overly sweet smell of kool-aid that just makes you sick.

this. times a 1,000. [image of a text] sorry gotta go. my raw water delivery just arrived [emoji].

I can't tell which earlier message you're thissing.

Re: Words for “yes” in Romance languages

#126

Post by Slavic »

mjfisher wrote: post #69
Slavic wrote: post #64

Stopped reading at "some slavic shit"

I've become increasingly interested in how people become offended recently. Offence tends to be bound up in notions of identity, and I think the way people offend and become offended is increasingly a factor in a world becoming more polarised. Would you be able to expand a little on your feelings? Would you expect people from other cultures mentioned in the article to be similarly offended? I'm not asking you to just…

Thank you for your kind asking. When I had started with this article I literally stopped reading at said phrase. I guess my intetion by posting this comment on HN and not continuing reading was to show my disapproval with said phrase. I assume the author mixed his interesting article with humour in order to appeal to a broader audience. And as it goes with humour there is always someone or something being criticized (being made fun of). It seems to me, there is no way nobody will ever be offended by an article that uses humour. It's normal to me joking with people, being made fun of or make fun of people (minorities, majorities) or things. But this phrase was just too much in that particular moment. I guess there is a golden line between making fun of something but keeping a proper (or interesting) language while applying humour. John Oliver (HBO) as example makes fun of a lot of things but his tone is never like "people = shit". By having a second look at the article in order to see how other cultures might be offended I noticed that Slavic seems to be the only one being reduced that much.

Re: Words for “yes” in Romance languages

#127

Post by malkia »

davidgay wrote: post #32

My favourite on the yes/no front though is the border between Greece and Bulgaria where "Ne" (Не) means no in Bulgarian and, IIUC, yes in Greek. And then the Bulgarians also have approximately reversed vs Western Europe head movements for yes and no, to maximise confusion :)

As a bulgarian, living in the US for the last 19 years, I can't say right now which head movement was yes, or no. I think I use both ways, choosing one over the other subconsciously - but can't tell how consistently, and why would I chose one vs the other... Maybe I need some deep reflection and introspection... things that any software engineer would love to have.... in their... language?

Re: Words for “yes” in Romance languages

#128

Post by dasil003 »

arwhatever wrote: post #125
nasredin wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

this. times a 1,000. [image of a text] sorry gotta go. my raw water delivery just arrived [emoji].

I can't tell which earlier message you're thissing.

Like the GGP I sort of hate "This.", but I think I love "thissing".

Re: Words for “yes” in Romance languages

#129

Post by apendleton »

loggedinmyphone wrote: post #77
pessimizer wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> And then the Bulgarians also have approximately reversed vs Western Europe head movements for yes and no, to maximise confusion :) This is strangely the most shocking fact that I know. It's one of those facts that remind you that just because something is universal doesn't mean that it's not cultural.

Shaking one's head for "no" is far from universal - it means "yes" in parts of India as well.

India also has its own head motion that, for lack of better way of explaining it, is in aircraft terms a roll as compared to our pitch for yes and yaw for no. (Or maybe that's what you're talking about?). It doesn't mean "yes" exactly from what I've been able to gather, but more like "uh-huh" might be used as marker of paying attention in a running conversation. Like "I hear you, please continue" without explicitly agreeing or disagreeing.

Re: Words for “yes” in Romance languages

#130

Post by Slavic »

henriquemaia wrote: post #110
mrow84 wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is only dismissive ironically - the author is not really belittling Slavic languages. Context and intent are important, and it is possible to be unduly sensitive. I think it is worth expecting readers to expend a small amount of effort to try and assess a writer's intent, so that we might live in a world where people can use colourful language. Teasing someone is not the same as insulting them.

The more I see these types of confusion in forums, the more I get a sense that many people online (the number of online people is too great to make broad assumptions with certainty) simply don’t have good [enough] reading skills. Moreover, as with any complex subject, there are possibly other limitations working in paralell (but still connected to the level of reading): the emotional state one’s in when it stumbles s…

It's probably quite out of context but I stumbled recently across the news that a left Swiss National Council named "Jonas Fricker" resigned from his position after comparing the transportation of pigs in cars as the Holocaust in one statement. It was obvious what mister Fricker mean't: That it's morally questionable to do harm to pigs. But many (jewish or not) people got frustrated "offline" at face value by his words. Since I mentioned Swiss politicians.. Some right politician "Roger Köppel" was verbally attacking federal president "Simonetta Sommaruga" - as a consequence the federal president and his committee left the federal courtroom. Obviously politics and online forums are not on the same level though - my point is you don't need to be bad in reading in order to feel offended by something (Swiss politicians should know how to read - should)
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